Concept2 Forum

Ranking pages include a link to world records. The fastest Marathon time for all classes and categories is for Dwayne Adams 2:27.48.4. I have no opinion about it. What I feel pity for is that I witnessed myself 2 years ago, on March 7th 2004 at the Finnish championships when 40+ years old XC skier Antti Varis accomplished a time 2:26.40.1. He did it on damper 10 with 34 spm. The competition was held in front of a huge crowd of several hundred people around. The competition was organized by Concept2. There is obviously a lack of communication inside Concept2 when such a time do not appear anywhere in the statistics.

Thorsten Jonischkeit did 02:25:47.6 in May 2005.
He is the fastest. Indeed a pity that Antti Varis time is not in the ranking.


Tom

Thanks for the info Tom.
You also had a good fight indeed at the Dutch Open Marathon.

Arno

Why on Damper 10 though Arno? was he realy that strong?

calonius wrote:Ranking pages include a link to world records. The fastest Marathon time for all classes and categories is for Dwayne Adams 2:27.48.4. I have no opinion about it. What I feel pity for is that I witnessed myself 2 years ago, on March 7th 2004 at the Finnish championships when 40+ years old XC skier Antti Varis accomplished a time 2:26.40.1. He did it on damper 10 with 34 spm. The competition was held in front of a huge crowd of several hundred people around. The competition was organized by Concept2. There is obviously a lack of communication inside Concept2 when such a time do not appear anywhere in the statistics.

Often with a smaller company such as Concept2, the branches operating in foreign countries are independent companies. That usually means an extra layer of "mark-up" on the price and an extra layer of bureaucracy in getting things done. If I had an extra dollar for every time I heard the complaint when I worked for what was then small but is now an enormous multinational firm that our European distributors charged too much for our product and then didn't know how to support it but wouldn't let the customers talk directly to the US main offices....

I see that Varis' time appears on the Finnish distributor's website at http://www.finnrowing.com/kunto2004_soututulokset.htm but do not know why it isn't in the listing of records on main C2 site. Perhaps the organizers of the event never took the trouble to inform the record-keepers, or (less likely) there was some reason C2 chose not to accept it. Another possibility would be an error in the reporting - I see at least one error in the WR tables regarding a competitor's age. It would be a shame if a typographical error had turned what appears to have been a world record performance into one that wasn't when the ranking tables were being compiled, but not beyond the realm of possibility! In any case, it seems to me that a race organizer owes it to the competitors to do whatever is needed to make sure that the main record-keeping body in a sport recognizes any records set in a timely fashion. Similarly, Concept2 ought to make sure that its agents know how to put on events which will be deemed acceptable if records are set, and what needs to be done to get those records included. I doubt either party is solely at fault in this case!

Bill

Ben,


Antti was and still is a extraordinary athlete. When he performed two years ago there were several other ergers having their dampers set to 1-5 but he insisted to keep his max 10. Antti is not a very big guy, I would guess 180cm 85kg? You can imagine that max damp setting together with 34 spm means a very strong but also a very, very short drive/stroke. You will probably not find this strategy in any rowing training guide

Bill,

Yes, in fact I reported this competition both on this forum two years ago and got a good response, but I also asked personally the local distributor to report the results to the headquarters. The results were published in our biggest daily newspaper as "New World Record in Indoor Rowing"..... still these news has not reached the indoor rowing community headquarters, which is very unfortunate.

Arno

calonius wrote: Bill,

Yes, in fact I reported this competition both on this forum two years ago and got a good response, but I also asked personally the local distributor to report the results to the headquarters. The results were published in our biggest daily newspaper as "New World Record in Indoor Rowing"..... still these news has not reached the indoor rowing community headquarters, which is very unfortunate.

I emailed Dena @ Concept2 USA this morning, and she promised to investigate whether the result should be included. She mentioned also that they track some 350 records, and rely on others to inform them when a record is broken that has not been done at a sanctioned 2k race or ranked on the online rankings. She didn't say whether she'd start scanning the sports pages in the Finnish newspapers for erg records, however

Now that I think about it, I recall a thread about an outstanding marathon time being done in Finland; that must have been the report you made. Probably a mistake to assume that any given thread on the forum is read by C2 employees except perhaps in the Product forum. Too bad no one at C2 saw it and thought to pass the word on to Dena!

Do you have any idea how much specialized preparation he did for this event?

Bill

so what you are trying to tell me Arno, is that he was a big strong guy, but his technique is S***?

Do we know it's sh*t, Ben?

Perhaps it's merely idiosyncratic, yet well adapted to Anti's particular gifts.

If you watch people at indoor races, you'll see a lot of odd strokes, especially by those who have little or no experience in boats. Some of them go uncommonly fast, though, and that's the goal. They don't award style points; it ain't sychronized swimming.

Tom

Ben Rea wrote:so what you are trying to tell me Arno, is that he was a big strong guy, but his technique is S***?

That pretty much sums it up. You can get away with poor technique on a C2 erg because unlike a Rowperfect erg, the C2 erg doesn't punish poor technique (until you do your back). His background is cross country skiing, so that explains his exceptional power endurance and very ordinary rowing technique.

Rockin Roland wrote: That pretty much sums it up. You can get away with poor technique on a C2 erg because unlike a Rowperfect erg, the C2 erg doesn't punish poor technique (until you do your back). His background is cross country skiing, so that explains his exceptional power endurance and very ordinary rowing technique.

Roland,

would you care to comment on the difference between Rowperfect and a C2 on slides?

Bill

Poor technique = breaks world records.

Good technique = Roland.

Like Rocking Roland stated Antti Varis is mainly a cross country skiier mainly specialized on longer distances, 50-100km competitions. Those guys have an enormous good overall fitness and strength. Roland will agree I don't think that Antti Varis has followed a specific training plan for erging but I could try to find out. If Dena needs any extra facts or documentation let me help. One year ago Antti also participated in marathon erging competition. He "failed" with his time approx 2:29 since he had done a marathon skiing competition the very same week and was naturally not recovered yet. Next weekend there is a marathon erging event once again with half marathon, full marathon and 100km here in Finland. If anything special occur I will report. Reminding myself of the discussions two years back it is rather funny to recall that most people were rather surprised to hear the splendid time in combination with max.damper and 34spm. One expert however considered it to be most normal,- Ranger.

Ben Rea wrote:so what you are trying to tell me Arno, is that he was a big strong guy, but his technique is S***?

Ben,
I personally do not believe too much in sophisticated technique discussions around the erg. Of course you often find and see a really poor technique if you watch around in gyms. With poor technique I mean the situation where the rower is exhausted rowing 36spm but the monitor shows over 3.oo min splits since only the seat is moving up and down. Most of us learn in a short while how to create pressure on the handle and get the chain moving. That is enough for most of us to get ready even for a competition. On water rowing is another story. This is my opinion. You better ask your coach, he might be wiser than me

no arno you are more wise than my coach hes really young, im not saying your old or anything...

so do you guys think if Antii Varis could impove his technique, that he would be even better and more monstrous than he is now?