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Citroen
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Post by Citroen » March 24th, 2006, 12:19 pm

More interesting from that article is:
Mark Thomson, a partner at libel specialists Carter-Fuck, said that there had been many similar complaints about defamation on the internet. But he said: "Most of these cases go away quite quickly - people pull down the allegation - so it's quite rare that people actually sue over internet comments."
What a shame that Concept2 and ipbhost.com have pulled the plug on the old forum.

Wiecher
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Post by Wiecher » March 24th, 2006, 12:28 pm

Hello Porkchop,

This is no american law, lawyers and that sh.....stuff. This has to do with sports...some one claims to row certain times and did never show that in a race....no effidence??
Can Dwayne sue me too? With the american law? I think you like your system of law very much but we in Europe do wunder us very often what shits happen in your law system.... Death penaltys with innocent people.....
People who get 2.000.000 dollars when they get a bit of sand in their food and lose maybe a part of a teeth in their mouth.....crazy....but good luck with your sue....ha, ha.
I know and everyone know Dwayne did not proof his results....and even worse his results showed us a real poor result compare to his 5:46......
Maybe your fantastic amrcan intelligent can investigate that first, ha, ha

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michaelb
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Post by michaelb » March 24th, 2006, 12:37 pm

I don't practice libel law, but I believe that American and UK law on libel are significantly different, with the UK being much more restrictive.

I will say this for the upteenth time: 3 of Dwayne's rows were independently witnessed, 2 by the USIRT, 1 by a rowing professional that someone here actually tracked down and confirmed the row. Two were sub 5:50. As best as I can tell, in hundreds or now thousands of posts, no one, including Chad, has offered any proof or evidence that these rows were faked or that the witnesses are lying. So there is no circumstantial evidence at all that Dwayne's times are not valid (as a lawyer, I may have a different and more precise understanding of what constitutes "circumstantial" evidence).

I know that Chad believes that those rows were not witnessed, or that there was some issue with the witnessing of those rows, but again, he has not offered anything at all in terms of evidence or facts in that regard.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
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hjs
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Post by hjs » March 24th, 2006, 12:59 pm

michaelb wrote: I will say this for the upteenth time: 3 of Dwayne's rows were independently witnessed, 2 by the USIRT, 1 by a rowing professional that someone here actually tracked down and confirmed the row. Two were sub 5:50. As best as I can tell, in hundreds or now thousands of posts, no one, including Chad, has offered any proof or evidence that these rows were faked or that the witnesses are lying. So there is no circumstantial evidence at all that Dwayne's times are not valid (as a lawyer, I may have a different and more precise understanding of what constitutes "circumstantial" evidence).
The witness you are talking about said : "yes he was rowing, no I didn,t see it he was rowing in the boothouse on his own, the man said he didn,t like people watching him"

And

"I was watching the rowing outside, erging does mean anything to me"

This not litterally but very close to this. :D nice witness
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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 24th, 2006, 1:02 pm

Porkchop wrote:You have now made an unequivocal statement that Dwayne lied and cheated. It may or may not be true, but your statement impugns Dwaynes character publicly. If it is false, it is defamatory; since it is a written defamatory statement, it is libelous. You have published the statement on the internet, which is available worldwide.
This is great news. :lol:

I have a list of people that I can sue for this libelousness.

Fortunately I have been saving their messages, including yours.

I'm going to be rich!!!! At least 98% of the time. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by johnlvs2run on March 24th, 2006, 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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michaelb
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Post by michaelb » March 24th, 2006, 1:04 pm

That is not my memory at all. You will have to find the post on the old forum and provide a link. My memory is that he said he was in the boathouse, watching the row, about 30 feet away. People questioned whether this was an adequate level of witnessing, but I think that is ridiculous and it certainly eliminates the possibilities of 1) a relay; 2) any obvious tampering with the machine that means Dwayne didn't actually row.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13

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Post by Porkchop » March 24th, 2006, 1:07 pm

Wiecher wrote:Hello Porkchop,

This is no american law, lawyers and that sh.....stuff. This has to do with sports...some one claims to row certain times and did never show that in a race....no effidence??
Can Dwayne sue me too? With the american law? I think you like your system of law very much but we in Europe do wunder us very often what shits happen in your law system.... Death penaltys with innocent people.....
People who get 2.000.000 dollars when they get a bit of sand in their food and lose maybe a part of a teeth in their mouth.....crazy....but good luck with your sue....ha, ha.
I know and everyone know Dwayne did not proof his results....and even worse his results showed us a real poor result compare to his 5:46......
Maybe your fantastic amrcan intelligent can investigate that first, ha, ha
Wiecher,

Actually, your opinion, my opinion, and everyone else's opinions are quite irrelevant. The only opinion that would count is that of the court that might hear the case if one is brought. The only thing that counts is the final result. :)
Porkchop

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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 24th, 2006, 1:11 pm

Citroen wrote:a partner at libel specialists Carter-Fuck, said ... What a shame that Concept2 and ipbhost.com have pulled the plug on the old forum.
Fortunately I have saved pictures, that Carter-Fuck would be proud of. :P
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 89.4 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
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Post by Porkchop » March 24th, 2006, 2:09 pm

michaelb wrote:I don't practice libel law, but I believe that American and UK law on libel are significantly different, with the UK being much more restrictive.
Choice of law issues in torts cases can be complicated, but I would think that there is a strong likelihood that an Arizona court would be inclined to apply Arizona law to a statement published in Arizona concerning a resident and citizen of Arizona. (IIRC, Dwayne Adams lives in Arizona.) Thus, the more restrictive UK law of libel would not apply.

In addition, I think I recall reading that Chad is a U.S. citizen living in the UK. Under the circumstances, it would seem that the UK government would have a minimal interest in what law had been applied if, at some point, there were a need to enforce an American judgment against an American citizen, even one residing in the UK.

In addition, in most cases in the United States, each party pays its own attorney's fees. In the UK, I understand, the general practice is that the loser pays the winner's attorney's fees.

Lots to think about here. :lol:
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Post by Spectre » March 24th, 2006, 2:48 pm

OK: there is a reason most libel suits are in the UK...its becuase the law is LESS restrictive. Second this whole lawsuit crap is just silly. as a lawyer myself I have to say this "you can sue for that" crap is exactly what gives us (lawyers) a bad name. If Dwyane wants to sue let him do it, lets not turn this into some continuing legal education discussion over the standards of proof for liable and slander in Arizona. Oh and by the way, I think Dwayne would probably be considered a public figure as to the forum which would make Chads defense alot simpler.
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Post by Wiecher » March 24th, 2006, 3:30 pm

Porkchop,

What are you saying? Dwayne should proof on court he is right? You are kidding? I think it is better, he shows everyone in a race what he can.
But you are right, what most europeans think of your law system is what you just wrote. GO TO COURT TO SHOW HE IS RIGHT......not in a RACE but in a COURT. Crazy, crazy but I think you are right, American law might give Dwayne right......that says everything about your law system!!
I can tell you such a law system is real sick.
In sports everyone shows it in a race or game but Dwayne can win this in court....think about it.....or do you think that is the way it should be?
Can he earn then from Chad let's say 1.000.000 dollars? Without proofing a real result? Sick, sick....

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Post by Porkchop » March 24th, 2006, 5:16 pm

Wiecher wrote:Porkchop,

What are you saying? Dwayne should proof on court he is right? You are kidding? I think it is better, he shows everyone in a race what he can.
But you are right, what most europeans think of your law system is what you just wrote. GO TO COURT TO SHOW HE IS RIGHT......not in a RACE but in a COURT. Crazy, crazy but I think you are right, American law might give Dwayne right......that says everything about your law system!!
I can tell you such a law system is real sick.
In sports everyone shows it in a race or game but Dwayne can win this in court....think about it.....or do you think that is the way it should be?
Can he earn then from Chad let's say 1.000.000 dollars? Without proofing a real result? Sick, sick....
First, there's no "should" here, only a statement as to what he could do if he chose.

Second, Dwayne would not have to prove anything -- Chad would have to provide evidence to back up what he has said. If he couldn't back it up, then he would lose.

Third, Dwayne's case is not about how fast anyone can erg; it is about a flatout accusation of lying and cheating. Strictly speaking, even if Dwayne races tomorrow and turns in an outstanding result, it proves nothing about what he did on some other occasion.
Porkchop

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Post by Porkchop » March 24th, 2006, 5:32 pm

Spectre wrote:OK: there is a reason most libel suits are in the UK...its becuase the law is LESS restrictive. Second this whole lawsuit crap is just silly. as a lawyer myself I have to say this "you can sue for that" crap is exactly what gives us (lawyers) a bad name. If Dwyane wants to sue let him do it, lets not turn this into some continuing legal education discussion over the standards of proof for liable and slander in Arizona. Oh and by the way, I think Dwayne would probably be considered a public figure as to the forum which would make Chads defense alot simpler.
Public figure? Well, maybe, but I think it is a close call. Posting a time alone wouldn't do it, or all of us would be considered public figures, which I think would be unlikely. Posting a really good time? Maybe, but there are line-drawing/slippery slope problems with that, I think. Recall, though, that classifying a plaintiff as a public figure only changes the state of mind required from reckless disregard for truth or falsity to "actual malice;" it does not provide the defendant with a complete defense -- only proof of the truth of the underlying statements would do that. Even if Dwayne is considered a public figure, I believe that the tone of Chad's posts is such that it wouldn't be hard to demonstrate "actual malice" to overcome the public figure problem. Chad has been a man on a mission, after all, and quite vocal about it.

I agree, though, that it is entirely up to Dwayne to decide what to do. Whether it is silly or not is also Dwayne's call -- he's the one who has been called a liar and a cheat.
Porkchop

Wiecher
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Post by Wiecher » March 24th, 2006, 5:49 pm

Porkchop wrote:
Wiecher wrote:Porkchop,

What are you saying? Dwayne should proof on court he is right? You are kidding? I think it is better, he shows everyone in a race what he can.
But you are right, what most europeans think of your law system is what you just wrote. GO TO COURT TO SHOW HE IS RIGHT......not in a RACE but in a COURT. Crazy, crazy but I think you are right, American law might give Dwayne right......that says everything about your law system!!
I can tell you such a law system is real sick.
In sports everyone shows it in a race or game but Dwayne can win this in court....think about it.....or do you think that is the way it should be?
Can he earn then from Chad let's say 1.000.000 dollars? Without proofing a real result? Sick, sick....
First, there's no "should" here, only a statement as to what he could do if he chose.

Second, Dwayne would not have to prove anything -- Chad would have to provide evidence to back up what he has said. If he couldn't back it up, then he would lose.

Third, Dwayne's case is not about how fast anyone can erg; it is about a flatout accusation of lying and cheating. Strictly speaking, even if Dwayne races tomorrow and turns in an outstanding result, it proves nothing about what he did on some other occasion.
First: Could, should, chose, my English is bad, but I think the possiblity to go to court without rowing in public to show he is right says everything about the system but also of Dwayne, you and his believers.....

Second: Chat can not proof that Dwayne did not row 5:46 like you can not proof I did not row 5:44 yesterday......or can you? Thatt is what you tell me now.... No Dwayne should be able to proof his magnificent racing at his club, but he did not do that at all. Yes maybe by the American law standard...ha, ha. But like I already said in pretty all sports you need proof from a race or game.......but you like to believe Dwaynes beautifull eyes more? ha, ha.

Third: Yes I think you are right, when you believe him you will do that for ever, when not you want a race result and we will never get that. Do you never want something like that? Or do you always believe in other people whatever they say? Maybe Chat said some let's say stuff I would not say but I do not believe stuff in general until there is a proof.......maybe a little sceptical but I think the only way in this difficult world and I think less naiv.

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Sir P
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Post by Sir P » March 24th, 2006, 5:51 pm

Did not want to get involved, but hay hoo............. :D

Over on this side of the pond (U.K) the U.S.A is seen to have a sue culture, and it seems to have headed over here too. The World had gone crazy!!
I think Dwayne is big enough and ugly enough (joke) :wink: to sort this out without dragging it through the courts.

I don’t know why Porkchop really needed to bring this up, as it seems that it is one man talking a lot (Chad) and one man standing there with his fingers in his ears going Nah Nah Nah (Dwayne)

Dwayne has had to take some name calling and Chad has taken a bit of a kicking too, look at some of the things Chad has been called. Not wanting to start another massive debate, but lots of bad things have been said to a lot of people on these Dwayne threads.

Dwayne, roll with the punches big fella, am sure this will all blow over…………………….one day :roll: . Great entertainment value on a rather dull forum since the re-build, lots of old names missing :cry: .

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