Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Topics relating to online racing and training with 3rd party software.
orry
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Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by orry » July 19th, 2021, 6:56 pm

Hi.
I use RowPro training programs to keep me motivated. I have recently purchased a Garmin smart watch and need to sync my C2 online logbook with ErgData so that the workouts can sync with my Garmin Connect app.
My problem is, when using RowPro, I need to use the PM5 USB plug to connect to my PC, Bluetooth for ErgData and ANT for my heart rate monitor. I don't think the PM5 CPU can handle that sort of load as the setup works for the first few intervals and then wierd things start happening with the communication between the devices like the PC lags behind the PM etc.
Is there a way to transfer RowPro training program workouts to my USB logbook so I can do away with the PC connection. I know you could do it with the PM3 logcard but I don't know about the PM5.
I like those workouts and I don't think you can create those kinds of workouts on the PM alone.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Ernits
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Ernits » July 20th, 2021, 2:57 am

Mind you, workouts can only be synced to Garmin through ErgData. Using a USB stick or Concept2 utility won't push these workouts to Garmin as they don't contain stroke to stroke data.

You can probably insert the workouts manually. You get 5 favourite workouts + you can replace the 5 custom workouts if you use a USB stick.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Carl Watts » July 20th, 2021, 5:34 pm

You simply cannot connect to much to the PM5, it cannot handle it.

There is a specific start up sequence if you want RowPro, ErgData and an ANT+ Garmin Heartrate chest strap connected and working as it is.

This works 90% of the time with a PM5 on V168 firmware, 169 was no good I tested it.

The PM5 simply fails to load the intended row sometimes and exiting online rows if there is a problem results in losing the USB connection which then requires you to restart the whole setup from the beginning including shutting down the PC.

Basically if it doesn't work, its not going to work. Digital Rowing will tell you that you CANNOT use RowPro and ErgData at the same time so if you are doing that you are already exceeding the limits and you just have to accept any issues your causing.
Carl Watts.
Age:54 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

orry
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by orry » July 20th, 2021, 6:53 pm

Thanks heaps for the replies.
Yes, after one attempt at this I have definitely come to that conclusion. The PM CPU doesn't have that sort of grunt. What I am trying to find out is, is there a way to transfer RowPro training plan workouts to the USB logbook so I can have the PM5 read the workout from the USB logbook.
I bought my Model D in 2007 with a PM3. I know that you could do this with the PM3 logcard so you could perform those workouts away from your computer. In theory, you should be able to do it with the PM5 USB, I'm hoping.
Thanks again in advance for any help.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Carl Watts » July 20th, 2021, 11:01 pm

I'm always perplexed at how people buy RowPro and never just jump online and row.

I confess I have never used the "Training" program and only briefly used the analysis until I figured out it was wrong.

We sure could use a lot more people online instead of those slugging it out in their basements on their own.

No idea how you remain motivated long term without engaging in a group of rowers online, perhaps thats the problem people try the Erg for a year, cannot find the motivation to continue and then sell it.

Then again the misconception is that everything online is "Racing" so people run screaming.
Carl Watts.
Age:54 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

orry
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by orry » July 21st, 2021, 7:45 pm

Hey Carl. I see where you are coming from mate.
I work away for 7 days then come home on my 7 days off where I am a member of an outdoor rowing club. I do a lot of actual competitive rowing when I'm not at work. I have my erg at work so I can row before I go to work. After 12 hours of work I don't feel like doing much at all. I can't go for a run before work as it is too dark. Rowing on the water is great and I don't need any sort of external motivation at all, as I love it. I have been rowing since I was 21 years old. Rowing indoors is completely different. Sitting on an erg with no scenery or anything changing around you, is very hard for me. Training programs are great as I actually look forward to finding out what is next. It's always something different and with varying intensities and stroke rates. If I'm not happy with the scheduled row, I'll just pick another from the next couple of scheduled rows.
I'm sure there must be a way to do what I need to with training program rows. Even with advanced custom rows, there must be a way to utilize these rows without a need for a computer slowing down the PM5.

Cheers.

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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Tsnor » July 21st, 2021, 9:19 pm

orry wrote:
July 19th, 2021, 6:56 pm
Hi.
I use RowPro training programs to keep me motivated. I have recently purchased a Garmin smart watch and need to sync my C2 online logbook with ErgData so that the workouts can sync with my Garmin Connect app.
My problem is, when using RowPro, I need to use the PM5 USB plug to connect to my PC, Bluetooth for ErgData and ANT for my heart rate monitor. I don't think the PM5 CPU can handle that sort of load as the setup works for the first few intervals and then wierd things start happening with the communication between the devices like the PC lags behind the PM etc.
Is there a way to transfer RowPro training program workouts to my USB logbook so I can do away with the PC connection. I know you could do it with the PM3 logcard but I don't know about the PM5.
I like those workouts and I don't think you can create those kinds of workouts on the PM alone.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Hi,

Why do you have BOTH ergdata and rowpro connected at the same time ? What is ergdata giving you that rowpro is missing? Or, alternatively, why not use ergdata and the paper version of the rowpro workout plan.

From what you've written I'd drop ergdata and use the ANT or bluetooth Heartrate belt with rowpro on your PC.

--> "need to sync my C2 online logbook with ErgData so that the workouts can sync with my Garmin Connect app." I don't use rowpro, but understood that rowpro synced to C2 online log, and that once the workout is in the log it gets sent to Garmin. Ergdata does not send anything to Garmin, the flow is from C2 log.

--> "Is there a way to transfer RowPro training program workouts to my USB logbook so I can do away with the PC connection." The manual process for Rowpro training didn't seem that hard. They say "• Manual – RowPro enables you to print out each training plan session in the form of instructions. This enables you to set up a Continuous row manually on any PM2, PM3 or PM4, and while you row, read from the big-font printout (which you can lie on the floor nearby) and adjust your rowing at the meters indicated. When you get home you can manually enter your results into your RowPro rowing log."

--> "I like those workouts and I don't think you can create those kinds of workouts on the PM alone." I looked at some sample workouts and they are all manually programable on the PM5. Workout samples came from here: https://www.digitalrowing.com/Documents ... RowPro.pdf and were fairly simple "new workload, intervals, variable intervals" the same way you'd do a pyramid. https://www.concept2.com/service/monito ... al-workout

aside: glad you asked this question. I was not considering rowpro, now I am wondering if I should use it over winter training.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Carl Watts » July 22nd, 2021, 1:13 am

Tsnor wrote:
July 21st, 2021, 9:19 pm
Why do you have BOTH ergdata and rowpro connected at the same time ? What is ergdata giving you that rowpro is missing?
ErgData is the best for the C2 LogBook uploads, its includes the total number of strokes and the Drag Factor, RowPro doesn't.

Also I find it far more convenient to sit on the Erg with the phone thats at arms reach and add the comments at the end of the row and then simply hit SYNC and it uploads.
Carl Watts.
Age:54 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

orry
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by orry » July 23rd, 2021, 3:42 am

Than's right Carl. Concept2 say the only way to get all the stroke data into the Garmin Connect app is by syncing your workouts with ErgData. I have tried it and they are right. All of my previous workouts done with RowPro never showed up in Garmin Connect but as soon as I used ErgData, there they are!
But you are right tsnor, I can just create those same workouts using the PM but there are a lot of things they will be missing. For instance, RowPro programs 100m start sequences into some of it's workouts. You hear the voice of the starter just as though you are in an actual regatta and you get all this feedback about the different stages on the PM matching up with what the starter is saying, even on a PM3. I'm pretty sure you can;t do that manually. Plus there is a lot of little tweaks that RowPro workouts have that you cannot program manually. For the price you pay, I think RowPro is definitely worth it, if you take you rowing and fitness seriously. I have paid for licenses twice in the 14 years since I bought my erg and I don't regret spending a cent of it.
It would be a shame for me to stop using it because it doesn't sync as many rowing metrics as ErgData.

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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Ernits » July 23rd, 2021, 5:59 am

Does RowPro give you a .fit file in the end? You can try manually importing the workout file to Garmin.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Carl Watts » July 23rd, 2021, 6:44 pm

You can use ErgData and RowPro at the same time, its just a little tricky in that you need to follow a strict start up sequence.

1. You need to have the PC turned off.

2. Turn on the PM5 and setup your HR strap by pressing connect.

3. Then I switch the Bluetooth on on my phone, hit done when it sees all the Bluetooth devices and open ErgData, the screen on the phone then swipes left by itself and you hit connect on the phone. It then swipes right by itself and your ready.

2. Turn on the PC and open RowPro

If you first try and get the USB connection to RowPro, the Bluetooth simply doesn't work, its like it gets disabled. The phone cannot see the PM5.

Digital Rowing tell you straight up you cannot use RowPro and ErgData at the same time. In fact you can and it works 90% of the time. For some reason the 10K distance as a Set Row is the worst possible combination, that fails probably 50% of the time. If your prepared for it to fail now and again and just live with it, then it "Works"

One can only hope the "Connectivity" gets better over time and not worse.
Carl Watts.
Age:54 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by mitchel674 » July 23rd, 2021, 10:16 pm

I never have an issue with all three.

1. Connect HRM to PM5.

2. Connect ergdata on my iphone to PM5.

3. Plug the USB cable into my laptop running Rowpro.

The sequence is key. Rowpro must be last or the others will simply not be seen by the PM5.
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

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Carl Watts
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Carl Watts » July 24th, 2021, 2:57 am

mitchel674 wrote:
July 23rd, 2021, 10:16 pm
I never have an issue with all three.
Your probably not rowing everything Online with 2 or 3 other people, you would see issues if your were. The PM5 simply fails to load the rows properly sometimes but you have already started rowing so pulling out is not really an option.
Carl Watts.
Age:54 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

mitchel674
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by mitchel674 » July 24th, 2021, 3:29 pm

Carl Watts wrote:
July 24th, 2021, 2:57 am
mitchel674 wrote:
July 23rd, 2021, 10:16 pm
I never have an issue with all three.
Your probably not rowing everything Online with 2 or 3 other people, you would see issues if your were. The PM5 simply fails to load the rows properly sometimes but you have already started rowing so pulling out is not really an option.
I row online often with all three without difficulty. Only time I had a problem was 2 months ago when the RowPro server was acting wonky and our entire group could not get on.

The order is the key.
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

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Carl Watts
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Re: Using RowPro, ErgData and HRM together

Post by Carl Watts » July 24th, 2021, 8:47 pm

Even with the correct order I still get issues.

Its just random, there is no specific reason for it. What I have done is put the Windows 10 updates on hold for as long as possible, Advanced settings and hit pause and pushed the date out as far as possible.

My system is pretty stable. The internet connection is Fibre and the WiFi runs at 100mbps and the PC is a pretty high end Hp Z240 with a GTX750Ti video card considering what its running, it should eat it.

The odd problem is to be expected, the recent issue that lasted a couple of weeks with RowPro was a headache compared to the normal level of issues.

If I didn't run ErgData as well, then the issues would be very low.

I just had an idea the other day on making the setup rock solid but it involves even more setup time pre row but I may try it and report back as it has a couple of advantages.

The weak link is the PM5, I'm just trying to do to much on it for it to cope at this stage, maybe future firmware updates is enough to fix it, time will tell.
Carl Watts.
Age:54 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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