Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Topics relating to online racing and training with 3rd party software.
PawsyBear
Paddler
Posts: 25
Joined: July 17th, 2020, 4:05 pm

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by PawsyBear » August 6th, 2020, 3:32 am

Lots going on at Zwift. Frankly it’s great to see indoor rowing moving forward at last. Personally I’m happy to pay for extra content and like the idea of flexible monthly payment plans. A lot of riders only use Zwift in the winter. Will check that thread thanks for sharing

Dino
6k Poster
Posts: 784
Joined: December 23rd, 2018, 8:54 am

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Dino » August 6th, 2020, 12:23 pm

CJOttawa wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 8:29 pm
A Reddit thread of interest added context to what rowing in Zwift could look like. Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/Rowing/comment ... ?context=3
Thanks for this, but WTF!!???? :o

"...human facing forward instead of backwards, and you can draft other boats similar to cycling..."

human facing forward??? surely that cant be true?
Its not like you need to steer anyway in Zwift - only choose your route if you get to a junction. This is easy enough to see on the mini-map or just change the camera view. One of the views on the bike is look backwards. When looking backwards whilst rowing, then this camera would just switch the view to face forwards. There are plenty of other views too, but you face backwards when rowing - period! I am sure this is a mistake.
Someone else has now added a comment on that thread to this effect.

re this bit "...For the built in 2k test (for setting workout intensities) it defaults to *exactly* concept 2 speeds so they can still be compared with numbers people are used to...."

I assume he means a 2K test will mean Zwift km = C2 Erg Km.
For the rest sounds will be more like OTW - with weight / power ups / wind(?) all affecting times / meters covered.

Not sure about the drafting... but it does add an extra element to it. On the bike it makes quite a difference. On the group rides to lead a group I need to row prob 20 Watts more on the flat.

I am surprised a developer would be allowed to post on a public web site about the work he is doing. The CEOs 'few weeks' comment a few weeks ago sound optimistic in light of this post unless they do a beta running type intro and gradually add bits.
52M HWT 18/19, 19/20, 20/21 - Team: 50Plus - Zwift Rowing
1m 326m, 500m 1:38,7, 1k 3:31.6, 2k 7:17.6, 5k 19:06.6, 6k 23:26.0, 30m 7730m, 10k 39:26.1, 60m 15025m, HM 1:25:04.7, FM 2:59:26.0, 50k 3:49:17.3

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3521
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Carl Watts » August 6th, 2020, 5:39 pm

In terms of graphics I'm pretty sure I dont want to spend the whole time looking backwards. I would much prefer a tv camera type view like in rowpro that moves arround. As bizarre as it sounds the only time I tried OTW I hated it as the whole going backwards thing is horrible and wanted to switch to a kayak as fast as I could.

The majority of erg users are NOT OTW rowers so the requirements are different. A more modern approach would even be to use some drone type video as well. What your looking for is action and scenery as visibility of who is in front and who is creeping up behind you and some wide angle shots that rowpro had now and again but now never use.

Clearly they are not going the 16 lanes approach of rowpro because it's to limiting numbers wise so now that changes things.
Carl Watts.
Age:53 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

Dino
6k Poster
Posts: 784
Joined: December 23rd, 2018, 8:54 am

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Dino » August 6th, 2020, 6:23 pm

Carl Watts wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 5:39 pm
In terms of graphics I'm pretty sure I dont want to spend the whole time looking backwards. I would much prefer a tv camera type view like in rowpro that moves arround. As bizarre as it sounds the only time I tried OTW I hated it as the whole going backwards thing is horrible and wanted to switch to a kayak as fast as I could.

The majority of erg users are NOT OTW rowers so the requirements are different. A more modern approach would even be to use some drone type video as well. What your looking for is action and scenery as visibility of who is in front and who is creeping up behind you and some wide angle shots that rowpro had now and again but now never use.

Clearly they are not going the 16 lanes approach of rowpro because it's to limiting numbers wise so now that changes things.
There are 9 different views in Zwift already plus drone mode, easy enough to have the "human facing backwards" as you sit in a boat and then select which ever view you want. In drone mode you can rotate the view too. I find it easy enough to switch the view when rowing - I just have a USB keyboard next to me and when forward at the catch take one hand off to hit a key - same for power ups.

Pressing F10 snaps a photo that is saved with your activity.... e.g. drone mode shot of me on the Aqueduct in France yesterday! I am the little bike in the middle! its very flexible so you can row along with whatever view you want.

[i'd actually finished thats why watts showing as zero]

Image
52M HWT 18/19, 19/20, 20/21 - Team: 50Plus - Zwift Rowing
1m 326m, 500m 1:38,7, 1k 3:31.6, 2k 7:17.6, 5k 19:06.6, 6k 23:26.0, 30m 7730m, 10k 39:26.1, 60m 15025m, HM 1:25:04.7, FM 2:59:26.0, 50k 3:49:17.3

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3521
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Carl Watts » August 7th, 2020, 7:46 am

Yeah I'm sure they will get it right but one thing for sure is that I dont want to be trying to hit keyboard keys while rowing so the automatic view changes need to have some form of logical shift as you move around the course so the majority of people are happy just focusing on the rowing.
Carl Watts.
Age:53 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

Dino
6k Poster
Posts: 784
Joined: December 23rd, 2018, 8:54 am

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Dino » August 7th, 2020, 11:35 am

Something I noticed today is that they are definitely going to need to keep the results separate between the sports. At the moment I am obviously rowing as a cyclist. Today I fitted my spin bike with a Garmin Speed and Cadence sensor and did a hard 20 mins spin session at lunchtime and averaged 253 Watts riding round London in Zwift compared to my 5K PB on the rower where I averaged 232 Watts.

Now I know its not a power meter (retro fitting a power meter set of pedals to my spin bike would cost £400+ so that's not happening!) and it wasn't a PB type of effort, but this sort of discrepancy could really screw your data, e.g. cause your category to go up a level and so on. I dont know if the running data is separated off at the moment, but they'll need to keep the stats separate for each sport.

On another note there was a Zwift update today... lots of other updates but no rowing :roll: I guess I am not surprised.
Carl Watts wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 7:46 am
Yeah I'm sure they will get it right but one thing for sure is that I dont want to be trying to hit keyboard keys while rowing so the automatic view changes need to have some form of logical shift as you move around the course so the majority of people are happy just focusing on the rowing.
I know what you mean, but its not much different to switching display on the PM5. One of the modes does follow you and change the angle as you go along. I do generally leave it on either first person view or the one back from this so you see your own avatar in the foreground.
52M HWT 18/19, 19/20, 20/21 - Team: 50Plus - Zwift Rowing
1m 326m, 500m 1:38,7, 1k 3:31.6, 2k 7:17.6, 5k 19:06.6, 6k 23:26.0, 30m 7730m, 10k 39:26.1, 60m 15025m, HM 1:25:04.7, FM 2:59:26.0, 50k 3:49:17.3

PawsyBear
Paddler
Posts: 25
Joined: July 17th, 2020, 4:05 pm

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by PawsyBear » August 7th, 2020, 6:02 pm

Zwift will separate sports, it already separates running. It doesn’t know your rowing. It thinks your a bike. Zwift doesn’t support rowing yet. I run Zwift on the PC, frankly no need to change view. I use the phone ap for steering, views etc. No steering in races. But when your racing I just use the one view. It gives a very good view of those around you. I’m also working too hard to do much else.

The cycling community was equally resistant to change at the beginning. I like the ‘rower looking forward’ is a no no 🤣 But this is what development means. New approaches. Remember the software matures over time with updates. It won’t be feature rich in the beginning. There are some cycling clubs that won’t allow Zwift cycling data on their club Strava board! 🤣 Some will never move to disk brakes 🤣

PawsyBear
Paddler
Posts: 25
Joined: July 17th, 2020, 4:05 pm

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by PawsyBear » August 9th, 2020, 4:20 am

Just a thought the (cancelled) 2020 World Rowing Championships were due to take place in 3 weeks time (16-23 August.) This would be a good time to launch Zwift rowing? Ive seen this mentioned in a few forums.

In the latest patch I also see they have introduced pacing bots. You can basically grab a wheel depending on the w/kg you want to train at. Useful to cycling, rowing and running.

SirJazz
Paddler
Posts: 7
Joined: October 11th, 2019, 4:36 am

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by SirJazz » September 23rd, 2020, 7:02 am

An update from John Mayfield on Facebook

“ I don’t think I saw Eric say “two weeks” (I probably missed it) but I can say that we’re all excited here at Zwift about rowing and maybe he just got ahead of himself during an interview.

Currently it’s really just me working on rowing and while the software itself may be nearly ready for a public beta release we’re hesitant to take on that challenge right this second. We just have too many other things we need to support/follow up with Zwift cycling/running/etc. No secret we have lots of things to improve. In addition other departments like customer service will be overwhelmed with the fall rush, marketing focused on cycling, etc. To add rowers using beta software ontop of that maybe isn’t the best choice.

I can’t say a date because there is no date at this moment. The money just raised will help, but hiring people takes a loooong time, so I wouldn’t expect any immediate changes here.”

---

Just forget about Zwift. The first time they "announced" Zwift Rowing was Christmas 2019.

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3521
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Carl Watts » September 23rd, 2020, 7:20 am

Well it's going to happen it's just a question of time. You dont spend a year on some thing to then never release it.

Hey anyone reading this please keep us posted when it finally comes out because really I dont stay in touch with the latest news from Zwift because RowPro is still what I'm using.
Carl Watts.
Age:53 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

mitchel674
10k Poster
Posts: 1029
Joined: January 20th, 2015, 4:26 pm

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by mitchel674 » October 8th, 2020, 9:19 am

Carl Watts wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 7:20 am
Well it's going to happen it's just a question of time. You dont spend a year on some thing to then never release it.

Hey anyone reading this please keep us posted when it finally comes out because really I dont stay in touch with the latest news from Zwift because RowPro is still what I'm using.
Zwift CEO Eric Min announced they will not release a rowing version in the foreseeable future. This was on a podcast on October, 6. He did admit that they have a fully functional rowing version, but they have decided to focus their resources on improving their existing product and product experience for their current target user.

It really sounds like Zwift rowing will never come to light. Certainly no release in 2021.
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3521
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Carl Watts » October 8th, 2020, 3:36 pm

Disappointing because they could have picked up a HUGE number of rowers during the covid-19 crisis, they are hopeless. Who spends years getting a product working and then doesn't release it ? Obviously they still have huge problems with getting it working properly or they would at least release a Beta version. Better to release it and continue working on it to improve it, its not like RowPro was perfect from Day 1, in fact over 10 years later and many people cannot get it working properly, typically I have found due to hardware issues and people like me trying to run old crap PC hardware.
Carl Watts.
Age:53 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

Dino
6k Poster
Posts: 784
Joined: December 23rd, 2018, 8:54 am

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Dino » October 8th, 2020, 4:57 pm

I too read this yesterday.

I guess I am not surprised - but its very disappointing all the same. The developers working on it must be pissed. They do have a lot to work on as the UI still has a lot of things that can be improved. Wonder what they are going to spend the $450m on?

There are a lot of other competitors now too. I like the look of FulGaz which has real life video - imagine rowing down a river or lake with this :D

I have rowed my way up to Level 18 so far, but not sure how long will keep up my membership now - I was holding out for the rowing. Whilst its keeping me motivated will keep it - but soon as get bored now rowing cancelled will mothball it.
52M HWT 18/19, 19/20, 20/21 - Team: 50Plus - Zwift Rowing
1m 326m, 500m 1:38,7, 1k 3:31.6, 2k 7:17.6, 5k 19:06.6, 6k 23:26.0, 30m 7730m, 10k 39:26.1, 60m 15025m, HM 1:25:04.7, FM 2:59:26.0, 50k 3:49:17.3

mitchel674
10k Poster
Posts: 1029
Joined: January 20th, 2015, 4:26 pm

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by mitchel674 » October 8th, 2020, 6:56 pm

Dino wrote:
October 8th, 2020, 4:57 pm
I too read this yesterday.

I guess I am not surprised - but its very disappointing all the same. The developers working on it must be pissed. They do have a lot to work on as the UI still has a lot of things that can be improved. Wonder what they are going to spend the $450m on?

There are a lot of other competitors now too. I like the look of FulGaz which has real life video - imagine rowing down a river or lake with this :D

I have rowed my way up to Level 18 so far, but not sure how long will keep up my membership now - I was holding out for the rowing. Whilst its keeping me motivated will keep it - but soon as get bored now rowing cancelled will mothball it.
I'm disappointed as well. I was really hoping this would come to fruition this year. The two times I've connected to Zwift and rowed were an interesting novelty for me, but not enough for me to pay the monthly fee. Rowing with all of those bikers just did not motivate me enough to continue.

It sounds like Zwift is in a bit of a tight spot and crunched for time. They hope to have a big public offering splash, but many of their users are complaining of recurrent issues with poor user interface and not enough data. They do have some competition and are concerned about losing their current market share before going public. Rowing was just never seen internally as a big enough market to launch at this juncture despite all of their efforts up to this point. Seems like a waste.
55yo male, 6ft, 154lbs

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3521
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Rowing in Zwift - suggestion to make it happen

Post by Carl Watts » October 10th, 2020, 1:23 am

They should have just got the native rower PM5 interface sorted out and created a dedicated cyclist graphic wearing a Concept 2 outfit on and then just taken out all the "Rowers" in a set of separate results as not to upset any of the true cyclists after just doubling the rower power output and converted it to road speed.

This would have at least got it up and running very quickly and allowed them to judge the potential number of users and then decide to continue on with what is essentially a totally separate package.

Instead we get nothing at all.
Carl Watts.
Age:53 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

Post Reply