Just Started - Some quick questions RE SPM and sessions

[KDreese]

I have been searching the forums but couldnt find what I was looking for. I just started rowing at the gym on a C2D with a PM3 (log card and reader arrived today - cool). Anyway, I have rowed twice thus far and have been following the "getting started" program located on the C2 website. However I have a question about Strokes Per Minute.

The last time I rowed I used the PM3 and created a workout with the intervals for the recommended 2nd rowing session workout (plus a 5 min warmup time and the final 10 minute interval as described).

Getting started Workout - 2nd rowing session:
• 3 min at 20 spm, comfortable effort; 1 min rest
• 3 min at 22 spm, harder effort; 1 min rest
• 3 min at 24 spm comfortable; 1 min rest
• 3 min at 24 spm, harder, 3 min rest.

The work out as listed above says that I should do the first session at 20SPM and then 22 SPM then 24SPM... However, when I was rowing, even what I considered slowly, I realized that my SPM's were in the 24 range right away and really averaged around 26 with 28 at the max...

I was really spending time concentrating on my form (based on videos and reading things on the C2 web, etc.) and didnt want to go fast and ruin form. I really focused on using the legs, keeping arms straight, pulling them in at the end and invisioning rowing a boat. Also, I changed the display to show the curve view so I could go for the nice curve I saw in the pictures. I was able to get that curve most of the time, however sometimes if I was tired it would be flatter than I would like but I could pick it up in the next stroke.

Are my SPM's too high? Is that a problem to be too high on SPM? I set the damper at 3 should I adjust that? Am I focusing too much on the curve view? It seemed to help me keep the form, but I dont know if that is wrong or not.

Overall though the workout seemed very good. I really sweated a lot and my legs were really heavy at the end but afterward I didnt have the negative pain and sick to the stomach feeling I used to get when I ran outside. Kind of nice really.

Also, on a side note.... This was my second row with a day rest in between. I was planning on resting a day in between rows as I started out, but today I dont feel sore (except a little in my shoulder but legs, back, knees, are good) is it too much to do this every day starting out? Eventually I want to get to 5 days a week but dont want to build up too fast. Any help would be great.

Thanks

K

[Bob S.]

The work out as listed above says that I should do the first session at 20SPM and then 22 SPM then 24SPM... However, when I was rowing, even what I considered slowly, I realized that my SPM's were in the 24 range right away and really averaged around 26 with 28 at the max...

K

The key to rowing at low rates (not slowly, since that could be interpreted as rowing at a slow pace which is a different matter) is to take time on the recovery. This does not mean pausing. The handle should be moving continuously, but don't be in a rush to take the next stroke. Once your hands are out past your knees and you have bent forward at the hips, just glide up slowly on the slide, preparing to make the next catch. I routinely row at 12 spm in warm ups and cool downs and I usually count out the seconds — one at the catch and all the way through the hands away, then 2, 3, 4, and 5 as I roll forward on the seat. Racing and trying to set new personal best times generally requires high stroke rates, but "the speed of the boat" is more dependent on how hard you push with your legs in the first part of the drive than it does on your stroke rate.

Bob S.

[KDreese]

Thanks for the info. That helps, but I am still having trouble controlling my SPM rates. Is this something that is important to be able to control? For instance, I see that some worksouts say do a certain SPM number then increase or decrease from that point (e.g. start at 22 and go 23, 24, etc). Is there a method on how to maintain certain SPM's?

[Snail Space]

You are doing really well.

Apropos the low SPM, it is as Bob says. Controlling the speed of the seat as you go forwards on the recover is the key to keeping the stroke rate low. In order to understand what we mean try sitting on the ergo at backstops, and forget about taking a stroke; allow your arms to go out straight in front of you, with your body still leaning slightly back; then rock your body over until your shoulders are in front of your hip joint; only now allow your knees to slowly, slowly rise. As your seat moves forwards make it slow down as you get nearer to front-stops so that, when your shins are vertical, you have ground to a stop. Make this forward movement painfully slow, or slower.

Now you are ready to take a drive using legs, then body rock, then arms. Make the drive vigorous, but keeping repeating the tediously slow recovery. Concentrate on making sure the handle never stops but keeps moving in a continuous fluid movement. During your warmup see if you can row at Bob's 12 spm.

Good luck,
Dave.

[jamesg]

KD, you're probably rowing short strokes. Make sure you're rowing to full extension, with hands near the chainguard at the catch, straight back and shins vertical.

Also, use the right recovery sequence as described by Bob and Dave above, to avoid tangling your knees and hands and to be sure you do get to the strong position.

Strokes like this tend to be very hard work, so you may well be glad to drop the rating, but that depends on your height and fitness.

If you set a low drag (racing shells have low drag and go fast), say 3, the pull can be quick (1 second) with work in it, and then you can take about 2 sec rest on recovery. This time ratio is usual for most training purposes.

[KDreese]

Thanks for all the input but I still have some questions. However, I did make some changes based on the info here and the free technique DVD from C2 I got on Sunday. During my last rowing session I realized that yes indeed my strokes were too short and I realized that I was bending my knees on recovery too early (as described in the video). So this last time I concentrated on the timing of the knees and really worked to make sure I extended to the chain catch. Also, I tried to be quick and powerful on the drive and slow on the recovery. I noticed that my SPM's dropped from 27 or so to around 20 and my split time went from 2:46 to 2:20/2:30 or so...

However, the guy next to me was moving much slower than me but glancing at his monitor I noticed he had SPM's of 17 or so and a split of 2:07... I guess I still dont understand the relation between low SPM's and lower split times... is it all in the drive and finish? Meaning fast and powerful drive and finish with a nice slow recovery? I still dont know how the guy next to me could have such low SPM's and split time...

[nchasan]

I still dont know how the guy next to me could have such low SPM's and split time...

You achieve lower split times on slower stroke rates by EXPLODING off the foot pedals and pulling HARD!

[KDreese]

Thanks for all the help! Last night it seemed to all come together. I finished up the "Getting Started" program and rowed for a full 30 minutes straight (with 5 min warm up and 5 min cool down) and was able to get my SPM's down to 20 (Sometimes 28) and my split time down to the low 2:20's. Also, I was able to get down to 2:07 by pulling like hell (with legs then arms). The whole time I kept thinking about the split times that some people of posted and their 2M times. WOW that seems very far away from where I am now, but I do feel that for me the 30 mins nonstop at a constant pace (actually my PB) was an accomplishment.

Thanks again for all the help.

KD

[nchasan]

Thanks for all the help! Last night it seemed to all come together. I finished up the "Getting Started" program and rowed for a full 30 minutes straight (with 5 min warm up and 5 min cool down) and was able to get my SPM's down to 20 (Sometimes 28) and my split time down to the low 2:20's. Also, I was able to get down to 2:07 by pulling like hell (with legs then arms). The whole time I kept thinking about the split times that some people of posted and their 2M times. WOW that seems very far away from where I am now, but I do feel that for me the 30 mins nonstop at a constant pace (actually my PB) was an accomplishment.

Thanks again for all the help.

KD

RIGHT ON KD! Its fun to see the numbers come down as fitness and strength improves...over time, my 10K split time has fallen from 2:23 to 2:12...I do one thing to help keep my splits lowish and that is to do 10-20 fast strokes every 10 minutes. Helps me!

Neil

[jamesg]

I still dont know how the guy next to me could have such low SPM's and split time...

It's mainly a question of length, though he was also pulling hard. The erg measures work per stroke, and Work (an engineering term and what the erg measures) is = Length x Force. If you want to go a long way at each stroke (the main object of rowing), both have to be high. I find length to come much cheaper than force.

But both naturally within our limits; strength and extension are related to height, and we should not stretch so far at the catch as to get into a weak position.