Training by heartrate

[LanceH]

I'm 40, coming off a knee injury which has seen me gain weight over the last two years.

At first I was easing back into rowing, which I had not done since 2006. My last round of rowing saw me fit enough that I returned to playing soccer, ie, it was a complete success. I hope for similar results this time around.

Reading through the forums, my style of rowing seems different from others. I like to row 30-60 minutes a day, and maintain a heart rate of 160ish after the first 10 minutes or so. That seems high compared to a lot of the "zones" mentioned everywhere. I am definitely gassed by the end of a workout and my body feels more tired as the week goes on until my rest day which sees me recovered and ready to post a time slightly better than the previous week.

I'm not really concerned with improving my times on the erg, I only wish to have a good workout which induces weight loss and strengthens my body. I enjoy the general "hard" feeling that comes with rowing for several months in a row.

I just can't row at lower heart rates for long distances as it seems boring and I have no interest in a short workout to post a vanity 2k time. I've come to the conclusion that my style is good in the sense that it gets me on the rower and actually exercising is the most important part of exercise.

Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone had some insight to what is going on physiologically from working out at a high heart rate daily? Am I missing out on something? How could I change it around?

[MongoEric]

I would recommend the book "Heart Rate Training" by Benson and Connolly.

I'm interested in weight loss and their strong message is long and slow for weightloss. They explain the biochemistry which involves preferentially metabolizing fats at aerobic heart rates and carbohydrates at the anaerobic heart rates.

My personal experience bears this out. I went from weight lifting with no weight loss, to erging at high intensities with little weight loss, to long and slow with significant weight loss.

I hope this helps.

[jamesg]

40 y and 160 HR suggests you're working at the UT1-AT borderline, using Karvonen (i.e HR range) with rest hr 50-60 and max 185. So you're very fit if you can do that for an hour.

You could try the Wolverine L4 routines that can put us through a whole range of ratings and paces in a single work-out, so that time flies. These are pace based rather than HR, but it won't take you long to find your paces, even without a 2k test.

Simplest way is to select a number, say 10; then at rating 18 pull 180W, at 20 200W and so on at 22, 24, 26, each for two minutes, using 10 minute cycles such as 2' at each rating 18-20-18-20-18 or 18-20-22-20-18 and so on.

If the multiple 10 is too high or too low, adjust to taste. The important thing is to maintain a leg-based full-length fast stroke and reasonable handle force at all ratings, with low drag to allow slow recovery.

Lots of interesting reading here; the tables are at the end:
http://www.concept2.com/forums/wolverine_plan.htm

If interested in pace-HR relationships, this site below is a good starter. It's for 2k racing but we can always cycle through the first half and repeat to taste:
http://concept2.co.uk/training/interactive

[LanceH]

Thanks jamesg. Good point about mixing it up amidst a long session and making time go by faster. I was doing this last week to an extent, doing a minute at 160, then as slow as necessary to get back down to 140, usually in a minute.

Currently my pace at 160 HR is only 2:12, I do this with the damper set at 4. I score better with the damper set at 1, but I prefer the hard catch and I really don't care about my scores compared to the results I see off the machine. Is this a matter of endorphins kicking in when I work in this range? Working out at low heart rates is pure misery to me.

[gregsmith01748]

@lanceh: if you like what you're doing, and getting the results you want, keep doing it. I went from doing 30 to 60 minute continuous as fast as I could to a more structured training plan because I wanted to get faster. I started paying attention to HR based training to avoid overtraining while working to a speed goal. As previously posted, the HR range you are working in is pretty sustainable. The main cautionary tale from HR training is if you venture into the anaerobic zone (>90% hrmax), then you better do some low intensity work to recover. The points about fat burning are also accurate, but a much bigger factor in that is just the balance of calories in and calories burned.

BTW: the other reason to vary workouts is to keep them interesting over the long haul, so if you find yourself getting bored, or not looking forward to rowing, you might want to look into the options.

[carlb]

I would recommend the book "Heart Rate Training" by Benson and Connolly.

I'm interested in the book.....What info does the chapter on rowing contain?

[Carl Watts]

You can do plenty of reading but it's also about knowing how you body reacts to various levels of intensity.

This has taken me ages and is made harder when you have significant gains in your performance along the way and also I'm still a relative newbie when it comes to really trying to pushing myself to the limits.Anyway what I have found so far...

Basically longer rows at lower ratings and having the dicipline to stay in the intended HR band is where it's at for "Training". If the problem here is boredom then get RowPro and row online with a buddy or others and the problem is solved.

UT2 rowing can feel like your doing nothing but I have found doing "HR limited" rows to be really useful in tracking my progress over time as the pace improves for the same HR and same rating.

My HR is affected significantly by the rating. 1:57 pace at 18spm results in 161ave hr but at 21spm the hr falls to 153ave for the same pace so two differnt training bands.

Things I notice are that UT1 and UT2 rows are repeatable from one day to the next, where as anything higher can have you fatigued by the end of the week and result in an elevated resting HR. PB's simply ruin your training and it can take 3 or 4 days at my age to get back to the "Normal" training routine.

[Bokaj]

@carlb

I just finished reading "Heart Rate Training", I thought it was good info. I had never realized how training in each HR zone helps you overall, I always just pushed myself to the next level. As for the rowing chapter, it has a fitness test, and then 3 training plans that are rowing specific.

[carlb]

I would recommend the book "Heart Rate Training" by Benson and Connolly.
I'm interested in weight loss and their strong message is long and slow for weightloss. They explain the biochemistry which involves preferentially metabolizing fats at aerobic heart rates and carbohydrates at the anaerobic heart rates.
My personal experience bears this out. I went from weight lifting with no weight loss, to erging at high intensities with little weight loss, to long and slow with significant weight loss.

The way I recall it.....
working at an easier HR of like 60% to 70% has the maximum fat burn. But that max is the max percentagae of total calories.

working harder (maybe at 70% to 85%) has a higher % of carb burn, lower % of fat burn, but total calorie burn is higher, so the number of fat calories burned is higher. So I recall 75% to 80% as ideal. Does my recall match the book?

The last 60 min row I did I felt really great. Got to 70% HR pretty quickly. Watched HR slowly increase to 85% over 50 minutes. During the last 10 mins I think it got higher. Felt well used but not exhausted, next day felt thinner. I'm pretty fit, age 51, not heavy at 172 lbs / 6', not trying to lose weight but would like to get to 75 kg lwt. I agree with Carl Watts that individuals vary in there adaptation to intensity and training levels.

[Corkster52]

Hmmmm. I have to be doing something wrong then. I have only lost a pound in 2-1/2 weeks, and I have been doing over 10K per day for the last 10 (except for Sunday). I am an overweight 58 year old, and my pace averages 2:30. HR gets up to 145 and, other than a couple of days where I tried to vary things, I row straight through for an hour for one day and 10K the next. I wonder if I am burning carbs instead of my overabundant fat? I ad the book too, but apparently something didn't stick!

[Carl Watts]

Hmmmm. I have to be doing something wrong then. I have only lost a pound in 2-1/2 weeks, and I have been doing over 10K per day for the last 10 (except for Sunday). I am an overweight 58 year old, and my pace averages 2:30. HR gets up to 145 and, other than a couple of days where I tried to vary things, I row straight through for an hour for one day and 10K the next. I wonder if I am burning carbs instead of my overabundant fat? I ad the book too, but apparently something didn't stick!

145HR average may in fact be too high for you. Find out your resting and max HR and put it in the following....

http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/conten ... e=hr_bands

then let us know what band your training in.

[Corkster52]

145 wasn't my average, but what I got up to towards the end (wanting to keep my finish time below 51' for a 10K). I believe my max heart rate should be around 138. I am wondering if it would be best for weight loss if I targeted a moderate( 200-230 watts) for a duration instead of monitoring pace/distance/heart rate? There are a number of people that have given me some very good advice here, but for some reason I am struggling to do the right thing. Don't get me wrong, I feel great about what I have been able to do so far and all the other indicators of success are showing, but I really want to drop some weight at an achievable rate as quickly as I can.

[gregsmith01748]

@corkster: I assure you that you are doing nothing wrong, at least with regard to working out on the erg. What's written about training zones and heart rates should be thought of like the "Pirates Code" (more of a guideline, really).

Yes, when you row at or below 75% of MaxHR, the metabolic pathway that provides the majority of the energy is the one that burns fat, but it's a ratio. It also only kicks in as the glycogen in your muscles is depleted. I have found that the key to weight loss is how many calories you burn vs how many you take in. If the balance is negative, your body will figure out how to lose weight, no matter whether you are rowing fast or slow.

I found this on another website: (http://exercise.about.com/cs/cardiowork ... 22601a.htm)

The body does burn a higher percentage of calories from fat in the 'fat burning zone' or at lower intensities. But, at higher intensities, you burn a greater number of overall calories which is what you should be concerned about when trying to lose weight. The chart below details the fat calories expended by a 130-pound woman during cardio exercise:

Low Intensity - 60-65% MHR High Intensity - 80-85% MHR
Total Calories expended per min. 4.86 6.86
Fat Calories expended per min. 2.43 2 .7
Total Calories expended in 30 min. 146 206
Total Fat calories expended in 30 min. 73 82
Percentage of fat calories burned 50% 39.85%
From The 24/5 Complete Personal Training Manual, 24 Hour Fitness, 2000

So, although the ratio changes depending on heart rate, it is not light a light switch.

I know it's frustrating (believe I know) when you work hard and don't see results, but try to be patient. Especially when you are starting, you will be adding some muscle mass for the rowing specific motions (especially your quads), so that could slow down weight loss temporarily. The other thing is that rowing will make you HUNGRY. I had to watch what I ate like a hawk, because my body really wanted to replace the glycogen and fat I was burning.

I hope this is helpful.

[Bob S.]

I know it's frustrating (believe I know) when you work hard and don't see results, but try to be patient. Especially when you are starting, you will be adding some muscle mass for the rowing specific motions (especially your quads), so that could slow down weight loss temporarily. The other thing is that rowing will make you HUNGRY. I had to watch what I ate like a hawk, because my body really wanted to replace the glycogen and fat I was burning.

I hope this is helpful.

I was going to say something similar, but Greg has said it better than I can, especially since he can speak from experience with regard to weight loss. As I said before, it takes patience and persistence. Don't pay any attention to the day to day or even week to week weight fluctuations. Hang in there for 3-4 months and see how things go. And, as Greg warned, take care on the calorie intake.

Bob S.

[Corkster52]

Greg, thanks so much for your continued support. You have been a really big help in keeping my head up. Here is an interesting site. http://www.nowloss.com/weight-loss-calc ... row150.htm

Can't get the link to copy, but once you get there you may have to do a search for "stationary rowing". It brings up a calculator to plug in weight and minutes of workout, then give you quite a few potential calorie burn stats. You sure are right about HUNGRY! It is the worst in the evening after my workout. Before I start to eat, I do not feel hungry....but after that first of second bite, I feel like I could eat a side of beef!...lol I was really hoping that with getting off my butt and exercising religiously I would not have to go hungry...but maybe that is impossible. Have you found anything that you can eat that will fill you up and not put down a gazillion calories? Thanks again. Corky