6 months stuck - need some help

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Marhi
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6 months stuck - need some help

Post by Marhi » June 3rd, 2019, 11:24 am

Hi guys, as topic name says, I need some advice/help from you. First sorry for my English, it´s not my mothertongue.

I am 28 yo, M, 183 cm and now at 108 kg. I am battling my whole life with weight, my maximum was 160 kg (as 18 yo). Then I lost 60 kg and 4 years back I was at 100 kg. I was 3-4 times per week at gym, doing full body strength training and HIIT cardio...I never did long sessions cardio (30m+), it was extreme boring for me. I can say it was somehow easy for me to lose weight, I ate a lot, 5 times per day, almost everything (except fast food, processed food and sugary drinks). I lost about 4-5 kg per month. Then I finished college, moved to another country (for work) and gained 25 kg in 3 years (first work in my life, new language, stress, bad eating habits).

Last year in April I said to myself enough and wanted to be under 100 kg. My dream weight is 90 kg. I like to read a lot, and I found low carb / keto diet. Those health benefits and weight loss looked very good. In first 4 months i lost 10 kg. It was okay but somehow too little, when I saw those results on Forum from another people. Then in September I told myself that i need to start with some kind of sport. And I bought Concept 2 rower (model D). It was my favourite piece at a gym, so why not. I started to row (3x HIIT, 3x LISS - 30 min per week). I dropped next 7 kg in 3-4 Months. It wasn´t a lot but I was happy it was something. But I didn´t understand it, i was doing sport and eating clean - low carb (i like eating vegetables a lot, so no strict keto) and it was somehow slow, I know that every person is different but it was little bit disappointing. Yeah and here I am, in December I was at 108-109 kg. Now it´s June and I am still at 108-109 kg. Added intermittent fasting to my diet, I did for about 6 months 16:8. Last month I was so angry, so I started with Omad (5x per week, on weekend I am eating 1-2 times per day) and after one month Omad, nothing happenes with my weight. I am eating clean, cooking myself, eating a lot of vegetables, no fast food, no sweets/sugary drinks, no processed food, no rice/bread/noodles/potatoes/fruits (just berries). If I want something sweet, I take some protein bar, protein shake or pure peanut butter with berries. I am not eating a lot of meat, but I am eating fish, legumes, eggs and cheese. I cook/prepare food every day, maybe 1-2 times in month I am eating outside (indian or thai).

So, when I am not looking at my weight, I am feeling great. A lot of energy, endurance, not hungry, good sleep. Just those kg´s are not dropping (I am also doing tape measurements and also no results in last 6 months). I don´t know how should I change my eating habits to drop weight, I have no idea, really. Or maybe change something when I row ? Now I am doing 3x HIIT per week (tabata - 20s max, 10s slow pace, 10 intervals or HIIT 30s max, 1min slow pace, 10-12 intervals) and I started to swim, this week I was 2 times but I can say so 1-4 times per month swimming + sauna relax. Couple of times per month I am doing also LISS (30 min, 27 s/m). When I am doing HIIT I am at 33 s/m. My damper setting is at 5-8. After 9 months I rowed 504 000 m on my rower.

It was little bit long, but I am looking forward to your tips. Thanks a lot in advance for your help guys !

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johnlvs2run
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by johnlvs2run » June 3rd, 2019, 4:13 pm

I started OMAD two weeks ago and it's working pretty good, so I'm curious how you did it. Personally, any time I'm trying to lose weight, it's all about portion control. I measure and weigh the food that I eat which, since I eat about the same things every day, is not all that difficult. Since I feel better taking my time, the OMAD usually takes me two hours to complete.

I eat totally different than you do, and apparently from what most people on the forum eat too. I would never eat protein bars, peanut butter, eggs, and especially not cheese, which I consider one of the worst foods ever invented. Among other things, it can very easily clog up the system. If you changed only one thing, I would recommend to stop eating cheese (and protein bars, and protein shakes). Fish is fine. I do eat sweet potatoes,

You could exercise more. You're averaging less than 2k a day, which is less than 10 minutes a day.

Plus you could move around a lot more, go for walks every day, ride an exercise bike where you live, things that can be convenient for you.
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 89.4 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
my training log

Dino
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by Dino » June 3rd, 2019, 5:58 pm

Marhi wrote:
June 3rd, 2019, 11:24 am

I never did long sessions cardio (30m+), it was extreme boring for me.

Or maybe change something when I row ? Now I am doing 3x HIIT per week (tabata - 20s max, 10s slow pace, 10 intervals or HIIT 30s max, 1min slow pace, 10-12 intervals) and I started to swim, this week I was 2 times but I can say so 1-4 times per month swimming + sauna relax. Couple of times per month I am doing also LISS (30 min, 27 s/m). When I am doing HIIT I am at 33 s/m. My damper setting is at 5-8. After 9 months I rowed 504 000 m on my rower.
Unfortunately as John says, you need to spend more time on the rower. I know you have said above that you have found cardio boring, but the short high intensity workouts won't help too much with weight loss. At the moment I would move focus to longer steady state rows. This means damper more in the range 4 to 5, and SPM down to 20 to 24. Distance wise, you would need to be looking at 50 to 60km per week, not straight away! but working up to this.

There is a good section on weight management and a 4 phase weekly rowing plan in section 8.14 of the following guide which will help you build up the weekly distances.

http://www.redking.me.uk/sport/rowing/t ... ing_v2.pdf

it's definitely worth a read, in fact the whole guide is an excellent resource.
Good luck with getting unstuck :)
51M HWT 18/19, 19/20
500m 1:38,7, 1000m 3:35.7, 2000m 7:24.2, 5000m 19:14.2, 30m 7708m, 10k 39:26.1, 60m 15025m, HM 1:25:04.7, FM 2:59:26.0

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johnlvs2run
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by johnlvs2run » June 3rd, 2019, 10:21 pm

If you record your workouts in the log book, you can keep track of your meters, and enter your times for the various distances in the rankings.
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 89.4 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
my training log

jamesg
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by jamesg » June 4th, 2019, 12:13 am

LISS (30 min, 27 s/m)
What pace? It looks as though you need to go twice as fast and three times as long. It's very hard to produce a lot of heat on the erg without doing mileage, and in any case it has to be backed up with plenty of stiff walking. You'll probably need to learn to row too, so that you can use some large muscle. That's where the heat comes from.

Cheese (how much?) is fine but is half fats, unless you mean ricotta (whey protein).

You don't need a diet unless you're sick, in which case your doc will tell you what it should be. Self prescribed diets, just like drugs, are useless if not slow and nasty death. It's variety and balance that count, but also quantity; what goes in either comes out or stays in, whether you see it as energy or mass or anything else.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

alien878
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by alien878 » June 4th, 2019, 5:06 am

Regarding boring cardio sessions:

Unfortunately, they are the best way to lose weight. I find that if I back off the pace/spm enough so I don't have to concentrate too much on the rowing (It's all about distance, not pace/spm), I can listen to podcasts. I tried music, but that got boring after a while too. There are a ton of podcasts out there. I just found the back catalogue for This American Life, so I think I am set for a couple of years. I still use intervals to break it up (ex. 4x2000/2:00r, 5-6 times a week, takes me a little less than 45 minutes).

As for weight: It all comes down to "energy in = energy out". Losing or gaining weight is all about changing this balance. Cardio increases the "energy out". Diets try to control the "energy in". However, it's good to keep the basics in mind as diets can sometimes be unknowingly cheated.

Personally, I don't worry about diets or calorie counting. I just eat healthy and consistently (energy in = constant). Then I just change the energy out to control my weight. Not always easy as cardio makes my HUNGRY :)
Last edited by alien878 on June 4th, 2019, 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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hjs
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by hjs » June 4th, 2019, 5:20 am

You eat just enough to stay this weight. And you feel good, thats a good starting point.

To shift this balance, either train more, not harder! Ad volume.

Or look closely to your foodintake. Think its not to difficult to cut here and there. Look at the changes you can make.
Make an adjustment, try that for two weeks and see how you react.
Does it work? Keep at it, not? Make extra adjustments

Etc.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

mitchel674
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by mitchel674 » June 4th, 2019, 7:09 am

It sounds like you are getting your diet under better control, but perhaps it would still be worth you looking at your actual daily caloric intake. Really the best way to lose weight is not exercise alone, but a strict adherence to a specific caloric intake daily.

Have you tried rowing before breakfast. There is some evidence that exercise at that time forces the body to utilize stored fat as a fuel source. Anecdotally, I am thin and don't need to lose weight, but I still lost significant body fat when I started rowing before breakfast.

As others have said, you need to row more. It's fantastic that you rowed 500km last year, but you could probably do twice that easily now that you are adept at rowing. Take a look at the estimated calories burned with each of your rows to give you some guidance. Long steady rows are the best for weight loss.
54yo male, 6ft, 162lbs

Marhi
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by Marhi » June 4th, 2019, 2:40 pm

Thanks a lot for your tips guys !
johnlvs2run wrote:
June 3rd, 2019, 4:13 pm
I started OMAD two weeks ago and it's working pretty good, so I'm curious how you did it.
I am fasting whole day, drinking just water and 1-2 coffee (of course without sugar and milk) a then after I come home from work about 5 p.m. I eat one rich meal (lot of vegetables, healthy fats - avocado/olive oil and protein) and small dessert after (piece of 80%+ dark chocolate / nuts / protein bar / pure peanut butter with berries)
jamesg wrote:
June 4th, 2019, 12:13 am
What pace?

Cheese (how much?) is fine but is half fats, unless you mean ricotta (whey protein).
In my summary I see average pace 2:15 / 500m. In longer sessions (30m+) I´ve got 2:20-2:30 / 500m.

All sorts of cheese but not every day and when I eat it it´s always under 100g.
alien878 wrote:
June 4th, 2019, 5:06 am
I find that if I back off the pace/spm enough so I don't have to concentrate too much on the rowing (It's all about distance, not pace/spm), I can listen to podcasts. I tried music, but that got boring after a while too. There are a ton of podcasts out there. I just found the back catalogue for This American Life, so I think I am set for a couple of years.
Good idea ! I was always listening to music but as you say, it get´s boring. I dug up my old Monitor today and rowed 8000m with Netflix :D
mitchel674 wrote:
June 4th, 2019, 7:09 am
Have you tried rowing before breakfast. There is some evidence that exercise at that time forces the body to utilize stored fat as a fuel source. Anecdotally, I am thin and don't need to lose weight, but I still lost significant body fat when I started rowing before breakfast.
At the weekend I am rowing before breakfast. Through the week it´s not possible because I am living in a flat and going at 6:30 a.m. to work, so I don´t think that my neighbours would understand my passion for rowing at 5:30 a.m. :lol: But I am doing Omad now and skipping breakfast + lunch. After the work I am rowing and then i eat my dinner so it´s also rowing on empty stomach.


From today I will change some things. I will throw away all protein bars, and minimize those "healthy snacks" after main course to minimum. And I will try to row 50-60 km weekly. One more question, should I stop doing HIIT and do 6 times a week longer sessions (7000m+), or should I make some mixture of it ?

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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by jamesg » June 5th, 2019, 1:32 am

6 times a week longer sessions (7000m+), or should I make some mixture of it ?
In rowing, a steady diet gets to be a pain in the neck. However the LSS (which is not slow) is essential, so do maybe four a week with something a little faster but half the length in between. In Heart Rate language this typically means 1 UT2 40 minutes, 2-3 UT1 2 or 3x10', 2 AT 2x7 minutes.

Weeks do not need to be all equal, plans usually allow for a three week cycle with increasing distance, then start again or adjust the plan if races are upcoming.

I downloaded this Interactive schedule some years ago, showing the first six weeks of a 5 day 26 week 2k race plan at Level 3 (of levels 1 to 5):

1 -- 2k test -- 1x20'.ut1 -- 2x12'.1 -- 2x15'.1 -- 2x10'.1
2 -- 40'.ut2 -- 2x14'.1 -- 2x16'.1 -- 2x18'.1 -- 2x15'.1
3 -- 45'.ut2 -- 2x17'.1 -- 2x19'.1 -- 4x10'.1 -- 2x18'.1

4 -- 30'.2 -- 2x7'AT -- 2x10'.1 -- 2x7'AT -- 2x12'.1
5 -- 45'.2 -- 2x8'AT -- 2x14'.1 -- 2x8'AT -- 2x16'.1
6 -- 50'.2 -- 2x9'AT -- 3x13'.1 -- 3x7'AT -- 3x15'.1

.1 means UT1, usually rating 20-23
.2 means UT2, 18-20
AT means anaerobic threshold, 26-28.

Ratings are such that you can get into a rhythmic relaxed groove; so the work is on the far end of the oar, not inside us.

They're all doable, you don't have to collapse at the end of each workout, but you do need to enjoy it and maybe do somethng similar tomorrow. If you don't plan to race you could do worse than repeat those six weeks, maybe at slightly faster paces. The initial test (2k) serves to set the paces (in Watts) or HR levels to use in training. Maximum Watt levels could be 60, 70 and 80% of test Watts.

Pace 2:15 (140 Watts) at rating 27 (ratio 5) suggests you need to do some preliminary work on improving your stroke. Ratio 7 would be lot better. Use a comfortable slow and relaxed recovery sequence (hands away, swing, then slide) that puts the weight on your feet and lets you use hip ad thigh muscles to full effect.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

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johnlvs2run
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by johnlvs2run » June 5th, 2019, 9:27 am

Marhi wrote:
June 4th, 2019, 2:40 pm
After the work I am rowing and then i eat my dinner so it´s also rowing on empty stomach.
I do the same thing except exercise in the mornings, then shower and eat my OMAD, due to that being when I'm the most hungry. Before exercise I drink plenty of water and also through the day, perhaps laced with a little 100 percent orange or cranberry juice.
should I stop doing HIIT and do 6 times a week longer sessions (7000m+), or should I make some mixture of it ?
Personally, I do a faster / harder workout twice a week, and the rest of the days go moderately steady, doing about the same distance each day. If I was doing short speed sessions instead of longer workouts then I might do them more often, while still keeping up the distance every day. As long as there is a balance between them then you should be able to do both.
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 89.4 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
my training log

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Parky
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by Parky » June 7th, 2019, 4:34 pm

As a fellow overweight sufferer, for a quick weight loss try the potato hack.

It goes against all principles that the dieticians recommend, but it works.

I'm down from 19 st to 17 st 4lbs.
Hwt M - 73yrs - 17st 4lbs

Ollie Russell
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by Ollie Russell » June 8th, 2019, 7:40 am

Sometimes you have to eat more to loose weight. Sounds to me like a metabolism issue, with any diet and calorie deficit your metabolism will slow to adjust to the drop in calories, weight loss is still possible but it slows down dramatically. Maybe increase your daily calories by a few hundred or take a short break from dieting and maintain for a month, shouldnt really be on a diet for longer than 6 to 8 weeks. 4 to 5kg a month is ALOT to loose in a month and not realistic to aim for longterm, when you are very overweight (i was over 400lb 14months ago) it is very easy to loose weight, i felt like i barely had to try and it fell off. The more you loose the harder it gets, i have 30 to 40lbs left to loose and it feels like the hardest. Maintaining muscle mass will help with metabolism, increasing muscle mass is even better, though that can be tricky with a calorie deficit.

Lastly, HIIT training is not the most optimal for weight loss, neither is LISS. HIIT training is rarely done correctly and LISS is often not instense enough. 45min to an hour at the higher end of HR is best, i work around 160bpm. You will burn more total calories and therefore more fat calories. Which is exactly why i love rowing, it encourages me to keep a high HR/workrate over a longer period of time. On the treadmill i tend to set a pace and stick to it and stop after 20min because im bored, it stops me pushing harder. On the erg, you create your own power which is more enaging for me, beating targets and PB's etc. Or the erg i have rarely had a poor workout, with the treadmill and other cardio machines it happened often.
Rowing since December 2018
31yrs
6ft 1inch
260lb

2k 6:48:9
10k 38:49
60min 15,324

Goals for 2019: a 6:30 2k, 37:00 10k and would like to try a marathon.

Marhi
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by Marhi » August 11th, 2019, 3:11 pm

Hey Guys, I will share my progress after 2 months. I changed few thing. I am doing longer rowing sessions 30-60 min 4-6 times per week. I am also trying to walk more. I am no more eating protein bars (maybe 1-2 in a month, not few of them every week like before). I had also a holiday, 8 days of hiking. I was really surprised how good my fitness level was. I had no problems with 20-30 km hikes every day (about 800m uphill/downhill). Now I stepped on my scale and it says 102,5 kg. So at last it is moving in good direction. And my tape measurements are also better. :) I will continue and see what comes next. I have now motivation for next year, I would like to do a higher difficulty hikes.

jamesg
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Re: 6 months stuck - need some help

Post by jamesg » August 12th, 2019, 2:50 am

Well done, best possible holiday. Where are your mountains? Nothing like them to show us how fitness has improved; and for using that fitness.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

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