Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

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mebrammer
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Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by mebrammer » December 12th, 2018, 11:29 am

I am over twice my ideal weight. Currently I am rowing by placing both my feet on the ground and still pushing off for about 30-40 minutes/day. The other 10 minutes (usually in 5 minute increments) I row with my feet in the normal position. I find I because of pain to my hips I can't do this for any longer period of time.

Some questions:

1. How accurate is the calorie reading when I row with my feet on the ground?
2. Any long term issues with rowing in this fashion?

My goal is to get back to rowing with my standard technique for 45-60 minutes/day. I used to be able to do this. For a time I was up to over 1 1/2 hours/day until I had foot and ankle injuries related to jogging.

I still walk about 1 1/2 to 2 hours a day as well. No more jogging. I also have a dumb bell routine which I do about 3 days/week.

Yes I am working on my diet as well.

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Citroen
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Citroen » December 12th, 2018, 1:54 pm

Unless you weight 80Kg and run 25% efficient at burning calories. They are no more use than a wet finger in the wind.

Allan Olesen
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Allan Olesen » December 12th, 2018, 3:37 pm

Citroen wrote:
December 12th, 2018, 1:54 pm
Unless you weight 80Kg and run 25% efficient at burning calories
...and row at the expected stroke rate...

I have not seen that mentioned anywhere for some reason. But the 300 kcal/hour which they add to compensate for the non-measured effort of moving your body will inevitably also depend on how many strokes you take during that hour.

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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by jamesg » December 13th, 2018, 3:27 am

1. How accurate is the calorie reading when I row with my feet on the ground?
2. Any long term issues with rowing in this fashion?
1 The Watt reading is accurate, and the extra Heat we generate is 4 x Watts x Time if we think of ourselves as fuel cells with efficiency 25%.
1 kWh = 860 kCal. So if you work at say 100 W for one hour, that's 0.1 kWh and heat is 860 * 0.1 * 4 = 340 kCal.

2 Unlikely. Could try rowing with feet in, but no slide, so arms and swing only. Add slide as and when possible.

Suggest you do all you can but not bother with the numbers. Exercise is bootstrap, the more we do the more we can do so what counts is continuity.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, MHR 155. Last 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

Allan Olesen
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Allan Olesen » December 13th, 2018, 4:48 am

jamesg wrote:
December 13th, 2018, 3:27 am
1 The Watt reading is accurate, and the extra Heat we generate is 4 x Watts x Time if we think of ourselves as fuel cells with efficiency 25%.
1 kWh = 860 kCal. So if you work at say 100 W for one hour, that's 0.1 kWh and heat is 860 * 0.1 * 4 = 340 kCal.
...which is not what the display will show.

It is well-documented that C2 adds 300 kcal/hour to the above number to adjust for the non-measured work of moving your body forward and backward on the rail. As pointed out in this thread, there are quite some uncertainties included in those 300 kcal/hour.

(And I could point out another uncertainty on those 300 kcal/hour: How much of your body movement comes from pulling the handle, and how much comes from pulling with your legs in the foot straps. One is measured by the ergometer, one is not. So a person who mainly use the foot straps to stop himself before the recovery will have a higher amount of non-measured work than a person who stops himself by pulling the handle.)

Dangerscouse
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Dangerscouse » December 13th, 2018, 5:39 am

Do you still get pain in your hips if you reduce to the lowest drag and row at a relatively slow pace?

I don't think there are any issues with feet flat on the floor other than a tendency to possibly over reach with your back.

Best of luck with it all
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

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iain
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by iain » December 13th, 2018, 10:14 am

Being slow here, but couldn't you row with straight legs strapped in rather than with fet on the floor? If so, then this should allow you to slowly increase the amount of legs starting at 1/4 slide and slowly increasing. At the risk of pedantry, I believe the 300kCal also includes the resting calorie consumption (staying alive!). For the additional calories used, i estimate the hourly additional calories burned as 4 x 6/7 x Watts (as above assumes 25% efficiency) + (rating /28) cubed x 225 x Wt (in kg) / 80. This assumes that the average use in the data used for the initial calibration averaged 28SPM and that a basal rate of 75kCal/hr was used. This also makes an assumption of an average stroke efficiency.

Re the hip pain, no expert, but I had significant discomfort in my hip flexors when I started rowing again after a several year layoff. These muscles are used much more by rowing than for daily tasks and so may be significantly weakened more than others. It may be a case that in time you can strengthen them again and the pain will reduce. For some time I stopped running due to a pain in my calves that was merely due to a muscular weakness. The pain was so much moere severe than the exercise done warranted that I assumed I was causing an injury, i would hate you to make the same mistake.

Well done with making a start back and best of luck with finding a routine that you can maintain long term.
46, lightweight currently training 4-5 times a week after a long break. Free Spirit, come join us http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum/

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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by LeksUnicorn » January 24th, 2019, 11:00 pm

Allan Olesen wrote:
December 13th, 2018, 4:48 am
jamesg wrote:
December 13th, 2018, 3:27 am
1 The Watt reading is accurate, and the extra Heat we generate is 4 x Watts x Time if we think of ourselves as fuel cells with efficiency 25%.
1 kWh = 860 kCal. So if you work at say 100 W for one hour, that's 0.1 kWh and heat is 860 * 0.1 * 4 = 340 kCal.
...which is not what the display will show.

It is well-documented that C2 adds 300 kcal/hour to the above number to adjust for the non-measured work of moving your body forward and backward on the rail. As pointed out in this thread, there are quite some uncertainties included in those 300 kcal/hour.

(And I could point out another uncertainty on those 300 kcal/hour: How much of your body movement comes from pulling the handle, and how much comes from pulling with your legs in the foot straps. One is measured by the ergometer, one is not. So a person who mainly use the foot straps to stop himself before the recovery will have a higher amount of non-measured work than a person who stops himself by pulling the handle.)
If you use the calculator on the website to estimate a value for cals burned; track your food consistently (without using the 'calorie adjustment' features of some apps) and then increase or decrease your macros according to your weight increase or decrease and goals, does the accuracy of the cal burn for the average person matter? If the estimated value goes up, using the same formula every time, you've burned more. It doesn't matter whether we call it 1,000 widgets or 1000 watsies.

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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Allan Olesen » January 25th, 2019, 1:59 am

If rowing is all you do for exercise, you are right. But is that the case?

It certainly is not the case for me. I do a lot of other exercise which also comes with a count of burned calories, and having rowing indicate a higher calorie burn for the same effort is skewing the overall picture.

LeksUnicorn
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by LeksUnicorn » January 25th, 2019, 3:57 pm

Allan Olesen wrote:
January 25th, 2019, 1:59 am
If rowing is all you do for exercise, you are right. But is that the case?

It certainly is not the case for me. I do a lot of other exercise which also comes with a count of burned calories, and having rowing indicate a higher calorie burn for the same effort is skewing the overall picture.
That’s a very fair point but for the average joe with a goal to lose weight I think any exercise to be encouraged, count what you eat at least for an awareness with a macro or calorie count in mind and then adjust from there. Details are less relevant. I agree it can be fun and interesting though.

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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Allan Olesen » January 25th, 2019, 6:01 pm

I am neither Joe nor average. But I did lose 28 kg in 8 months by counting calories. Not the calories in my food, but my active calories.

So you can dismiss the idea of counting active calories all you want. It works. But I of course had to completely dismiss the fantasy calories from my C2. If I had trusted those, I would have reached my daily calorie goal far too easy on my rowing days.

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Parky
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Parky » January 30th, 2019, 10:14 am

I've been on a plateau for the last month at about 18st9lbs to 19st.

This is despite eating a healthy diet, cutting out the beer and exercising daily, usually rowing around 5 - 8 km each visit to the gym.

I've tried a new diet this week and in the first 2 days have lost 7lbs.

The Potato Diet seems to go against ALL theories of high protein, low carb diets. I'm going to keep on it for a few more days and see if it is just a fluke, or something that really does work - for me.

When I do go on the rower it's at a slow steady pace of around 2.15 to 2.20 per 500 and not doing HIIT.

I'll get back to you next week, hopefully.
Hwt M - 73yrs - 17st 4lbs

pes949
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by pes949 » January 31st, 2019, 12:05 am

It is great that you are working on the weight by rowing. It does sound like you are putting a lot of time into the effort. I was in the same situation about a year ago. Had not rowed in 15 years and was 285lbs. Found out I was diabetic at that time. I decided rowing was a good exercise as the doctor said a treadmill was not an option. The key for me has been a calorie deficit. Basically just cutting back and combined with rowing 5days/week for 30-45 minutes has produced great results. I am now 218lbs and feel great. I also eliminated all soda and now only drink water or tea.

So for the technique work to the point where you can get into the straps. Before rowing try to do a good 5-10 minutes of stretching. Do an easy warmup of 500-1000m and after a cool down of the same. This way you will retain and hopefully improve flexibility.

Stay with it!!!
M/62/219Lbs/5'9"

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Parky
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Parky » February 1st, 2019, 10:05 am

!0 lbs off this week after just 4 days, so now 18st 4lbs. I will now be eating sensibly for 3 days and back on the Potato diet for 4more days.

It's the first time I've been under 18.5 stone for months.

Thank you Christmas!
Hwt M - 73yrs - 17st 4lbs

Dangerscouse
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Re: Significantly overweight - Rowing technique

Post by Dangerscouse » February 2nd, 2019, 6:42 am

Parky wrote:
February 1st, 2019, 10:05 am
!0 lbs off this week after just 4 days, so now 18st 4lbs. I will now be eating sensibly for 3 days and back on the Potato diet for 4more days.

It's the first time I've been under 18.5 stone for months.

Thank you Christmas!
Great progress. Keep at it!!
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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