Beginner question -- mainly about stroke rate.

[Baltimark]

Ohh if that's the case, then just slide back and forth, after all if you can go faster easily then that's good.

That's not what I mean. I wasn't "moving the boat" any faster. I just had a fast rating. That's why I started this whole thing. I was moving like 35+ strokes per minute, but I wasn't going anywhere.

And, yes, skating indoors. . .short track.

[johnlvs2run]

Short track is scary stuff.

You must be in great shape from that, and from racing your bike.

[tdekoekkoek]

> rowing at low ratings should always be done at low intensity;
> rowing with intensity at low ratings precludes learning to row well at higher ones.

This is entirely wrong. While much training at low rates should be done at low intensity (read aerobic training), much benefit can be derived from learning to drive the "boat" efficiently at high intensity and low rates. Ask just about any coach of top-level boats and they do a massive amount of low rate work. Our club has just qualified a few rowers to the USA team for Worlds and these guys can really move the boat at low rates. Learning to apply that power at low rates helps them at high rates. I often see the Harvard eights going by at 16spm and they are moving the boat faster than many boats going 26-28.

Learning to row powerfully at low rates is essential for really getting the most improvement in strength and technique. Personally I do a lot of rowing at 20spm usually around 1:52, but sometimes I will increase the intensity without increasing the rate down to a 1:45 or so. I also do low intensity work at around an 18 and then I usually am focusing on recovery so 2:05 splits or so is fine. This training helped me row my PBs both in the hour at around 1:48 pace and in my 2K (1:37 pace).

Regards,

Trevor

[johnlvs2run]

Danes and Italians > WORLD AND OLYMPIC champions -> 39 SPM on the water.

[johnlvs2run]

rowing with intensity at low ratings precludes learning to row well at higher ones.

This is entirely wrong.

But that you can't do it kind of proves my point doesn't it.

[PaulS]

> rowing at low ratings should always be done at low intensity;
> rowing with intensity at low ratings precludes learning to row well at higher ones.

This is entirely wrong. While much training at low rates should be done at low intensity (read aerobic training), much benefit can be derived from learning to drive the "boat" efficiently at high intensity and low rates. Ask just about any coach of top-level boats and they do a massive amount of low rate work. Our club has just qualified a few rowers to the USA team for Worlds and these guys can really move the boat at low rates. Learning to apply that power at low rates helps them at high rates. I often see the Harvard eights going by at 16spm and they are moving the boat faster than many boats going 26-28.

Learning to row powerfully at low rates is essential for really getting the most improvement in strength and technique. Personally I do a lot of rowing at 20spm usually around 1:52, but sometimes I will increase the intensity without increasing the rate down to a 1:45 or so. I also do low intensity work at around an 18 and then I usually am focusing on recovery so 2:05 splits or so is fine. This training helped me row my PBs both in the hour at around 1:48 pace and in my 2K (1:37 pace).

Regards,

Trevor

Trevor,

Beware the Ruppintaor, he will get upset at you bringing facts into the discussion, and start spouting Eskild This, Eskild that, as if he knows anything about what Eskild actually does at any time other than a WR attempt at a 2k on the Erg, which Eskild himself said "It's okay if you are going for a WR, but otherwise don't do it that way."

[tdekoekkoek]

rowing with intensity at low ratings precludes learning to row well at higher ones.

This is entirely wrong.

But that you can't do it kind of proves my point doesn't it.

What can't I do? Row well at high rates? I hope you are not saying that. First off, no need to get insulting. Secondly you don't know me nor anything about my rowing abilities, although you can find some of my results if you want to google me

[tdekoekkoek]

Trevor,

Beware the Ruppintaor, he will get upset at you bringing facts into the discussion, and start spouting Eskild This, Eskild that, as if he knows anything about what Eskild actually does at any time other than a WR attempt at a 2k on the Erg, which Eskild himself said "It's okay if you are going for a WR, but otherwise don't do it that way."

Thanks for the heads up Paul! Yeah most of the time I don't respond to some of the things John espouses, but this was a bit much. Especially when giving advice to people just starting out. And as for Eskild, I spoke to some of our top rowers about his performance and most said that he was very short at the catch and that was only effective on the erg and not to be applied elsewhere. Good that he confirmed this.

[johnlvs2run]

What can't I do? Row well at high rates? I hope you are not saying that.

Actually I thought you were the one who said that, which proves my point is right, that you said was wrong.

If that's not right, then what was your rating for your 2k.

First off, no need to get insulting. Secondly you don't know me nor anything about my rowing abilities, although you can find some of my results if you want to google me

Yep no need to get insulting. You have your rowing times in your signature, 195 pounds, used to have your height on there, 6'5 or 6'6? And you've done a 6:29 for the 2k.

[Bob S.]

I figured that since I was going fast, I was automatically doing work, but I realize -- now -- that you can just kind of keep the wheel spinning without putting much power into it.

So, it's no wonder I was pulling about 38 s/m.

Now, I'm sure that my form is still pretty weak, but at least I figured out why I was rowing twice as fast as some of those monsters on youTube.

Baltimark,

There is a slight semantics problem here. You use the word "fast" when it appears that you really mean using a high rate (like 35spm and up). Most people on this forum interpret fast to mean rowing a boat at a high rate of speed through the water or rowing on a machine with a high watt (or Calorie) reading or a low pace reading. A fast slide does not count for much unless it goes along with a really hard pull.

Bob S.

[tdekoekkoek]

What can't I do? Row well at high rates? I hope you are not saying that.

Actually I thought you were the one who said that, which proves my point is right, that you said was wrong.

If that's not right, then what was your rating for your 2k.

First off, no need to get insulting. Secondly you don't know me nor anything about my rowing abilities, although you can find some of my results if you want to google me

Yep no need to get insulting. You have your rowing times in your signature, 195 pounds, used to have your height on there, 6'5 or 6'6? And you've done a 6:29 for the 2k.

No I never said that I don't know how to row well at high rates. In fact in the single I go off the line at a 40. Not too many people can do that. For my 2K in February I was at a 31 for most of it.

And as for my height, just shy of 6'4".

[Nosmo]

In fact in the single I go off the line at a 40. Not too many people can do that. For my 2K in February I was at a 31 for most of it.

And as for my height, just shy of 6'4".

There are many in my club who do it higher then that with no problem....

they just happen to be under 5'4".

[johnlvs2run]

You did the 2k at 31 spm, which PROVES my point.

For my 2K in February I was at a 31 for most of it.

In fact what I said was that:

rowing with intensity at low ratings precludes learning to row well at higher ones

QED

[Yankeerunner]

Thanks for the heads up Paul! Yeah most of the time I don't respond to some of the things John espouses, but this was a bit much. Especially when giving advice to people just starting out.

I've pretty much given up on Rupp too after years of watching him become more of a troll than a useful contributor. Most longtime forumites seem to have done the same. What continues to irk though is that he targets newbies with bad advice in his attempts to insult those that he has chosen to hold in disdain.