Sliders

[billyhaug]

I'm thinking of purchasing sliders. Does anyone know if sliders have been shown to reduce injury rates? Do they affect times in terms of online ranking? I've notice they are not used in competitions. Thanks for any help.

[johnlvs2run]

I'm thinking of purchasing sliders. Does anyone know if sliders have been shown to reduce injury rates? Do they affect times in terms of online ranking? I've notice they are not used in competitions. Thanks for any help.

They probably don't reduce injuries, rowing on an erg is a low risk exercise anyway.

Slide times are quite a bit faster depending on one's weight, as you are only moving 1/2 the weight of the erg back and forth instead of your weight, also the bungees toss you back in the other direction at each end. I've found the slides to be 2 to 3 seconds faster per 500 meters, the longer the distance the greater the difference.

They are fun to row on though, a bit different than rowing on the erg without them and maybe you can hone a few things to do with your timing and form. If you're thinking of getting the slides, then these are reasons to consider.

[michaelb]

Slide times are quite a bit faster depending on one's weight, as you are only moving 1/2 the weight of the erg back and forth instead of your weight, also the bungees toss you back in the other direction at each end. I've found the slides to be 2 to 3 seconds faster per 500 meters, the longer the distance the greater the difference.

What John leaves out here is that 1) he has been making claims like this, that slides are faster for years, without any evidence or support and 2) as a result, in order to make him prove his point, members of this forum (not me) actually kicked money into a pool to buy him slides.

My memory from when this happened a couple of years ago now is that although John continued to claim that slides were faster, he never documented this for the forum by actually racing on the slides or showing that he was actually faster or capable of faster times on the slides. I don't have slides and have never used them. However, C2 accepts times from slides in the rankings, and other forum posters, like Pauls, who have used them extensively and are actually experts who know what they are talking about, state that they do not provide a time advantage on the erg.

[philrow]

They probably don't reduce injuries, rowing on an erg is a low risk exercise anyway.

Pah, what a load. If somebody somewhere exclusively rows on some occasion but always only at a moderate-rate, short to moderate distances, with relatively light splits and/or with a low drag, and does so with perfect compression and technique, on a stationary erg, then perhaps there's a "low" risk of injury.

I've decided that I will erg exclusively on slides for as long as I have access to them at my boathouse this summer. I would think that slides help reduce stress on joints at the catch, as one is not starting from 0 velocity. I personally feel quite a bit better rowing on slides. I haven't particularly noticed a difference in splits, though.

I think slides do a decent job mimicking the feel of being on water. I've rowed in seats all over 8+s and 4+s, on starboard and port, and also in 1xs and 2xs, for long and short distances, with different riggings and different oars, and I've never hurt or even agitated anything on the water. I'm not really keen on the physics of OTW rowing and erging on slides, but I think there's a similar feel of run in the latter that again helps to ease stress on joints at the catch.

Of course, I could be blatantly off.

Phil

[PaulS]

Phil, you are right on the money.

While the effect of slides on Pace from one person to another will vary considerably (the worse the technique the greater the favorable effect, due to the forgiveness that the slides provide for poor body movement patterns that would punish performance on a grounded Erg more severely).

Good technique on a grounded Erg = Good technique on Slides

There have been several studies that have tried to compare the efforts of rowers on and off slides and the consistent result has been that HR is slightly higher for a given pace when on the slides. Although the differences were barely significant, the discussion of the reasons seemed to be in the direction that when on the slides there is no momentum assistance when coming into the catch, resulting in a slightly shorter drive length, thus requiring a slightly higher intensity drive.

My wife, and others, report that being on the Slides is less stressful on the lower back, but there are also some that don't feel much of a difference.

As far as the "boat like" feel, Slides are definitely closer than being on the ground, and rowers should work toward getting a similar feeling when in a boat as to when they are on Slides.

One very important thing for an OTW rower to watch while on the slides is the pattern of seat movement relative to the foot stretcher and the ground, making sure to avoid the circumstances that have both the seat and foot stretcher moving in the sternward direction at the same time, which would be manifested as "boat stopping" on the water (OTW).

billyhaug,
Try them, you'll like them. If not right away, with a bit of practice.

[Nosmo]

the worse the technique the greater the favorable effect.

Are you implying that John doesn't have good technique. I'm shocked, shocked I say! Especially coming from you!







So what is the sarcasm emoticon?

[PaulS]

the worse the technique the greater the favorable effect.

Are you implying that John doesn't have good technique. I'm shocked, shocked I say! Especially coming from you!

So what is the sarcasm emoticon?

Nope, just making a generalization. John's been playing rather nice lately, no reason to escalate at this time.

Though it would be fun if he could go on to explain how the weight of the rower effects the overall pace both on and off the Slides, that has been quite entertaining in its selfcontradictoryness in the past.

Sarcastic, you? Noooooo.......!

[Snail Space]

... avoid the circumstances that have both the seat and foot stretcher moving in the sternward direction at the same time ...

Paul

I'm struggling to picture how one might accomplish that small feat. The only thing that I can think of is to lift the knees before the hands are past them, with a resultant "gym-user" big dipper effect from the hands.

Is that even close?

When I use my slides (which I find quite disorientating for a few sessions if I've had an extended period using a grounded erg) I find it difficult to sequence the components of the stroke (legs, then body, then arms). I find it easier and smoother to use a near simultaneous style (legs and body, then arms). That doesn't give a true description but I suspect that you will know what I mean.

Cheers
Dave

[PaulS]

... avoid the circumstances that have both the seat and foot stretcher moving in the sternward direction at the same time ...

Paul

I'm struggling to picture how one might accomplish that small feat. The only thing that I can think of is to lift the knees before the hands are past them, with a resultant "gym-user" big dipper effect from the hands.

Is that even close?

When I use my slides (which I find quite disorientating for a few sessions if I've had an extended period using a grounded erg) I find it difficult to sequence the components of the stroke (legs, then body, then arms). I find it easier and smoother to use a near simultaneous style (legs and body, then arms). That doesn't give a true description but I suspect that you will know what I mean.

Cheers
Dave

Strangely enough it doesn't usually happen on the recovery, but at the end of the drive by having continuing layback after the arm draw is done. (Yes, a 'boat stopper' drive.)

The other version happens just prior to the catch if the rower has rushed into the catch position beyond their capability to compress, and hangs for a moment prior to beginning the drive.

OTOH, if you can figure out how to have the seat and foot stretchers moving in the bow-ward direction together, while taking good strokes, that is a useful habit, but extremely difficult to continue for more than a few strokes.

One thing I have found useful is to remove one pair of the bungees so that the centering force is minimal. Then work at keeping the seat as stationary as possible relative to the floor.