The Wolverine Plan pops up on this and other forums reasonably regularly, but there does not seem to be an active reference thread on it. I think there is a void to be filled.
My (possibly ambitious) hope is to establish this as a new ‘home’ thread for those who are executing WP (or near-WP) training programs and want to ask questions, share notes, compare progress and learn.
Mike Caviston created and documented the WP and has written/posted extensively on the philosophy, physiology and execution of rowing and ergometer training plans.
As he has answered a huge number of questions on the WP on this and other forums, it is neither my place nor my intent to turn this into an ‘ask Mike’ thread (though you are most welcome to post, Mike). To that end, I have included an index of a few useful links to his topic-specific comments as they relate to the WP and training in general.
There is a reasonable population of forum participants who have read a good deal of what has already been posted on this topic & I hope those people put their oars in and make this an informative, positive and active thread.
Cheers. Patrick.
_____________________________________________________________________________
For those looking for a pointer to the original source info, here is a partial index of some key information on the WP written by Mike Caviston:
Wolverine Plan (June 2002 revision): http://www.concept2.com/forums/wolverine_plan.htm
Additional Wolverine Plan Remarks www.eudemonia.co.uk/wp%20notes.pdf
* Includes a very helpful write-up called ‘Putting it All Together’, with specific guidance on WP training workouts.
Selected Postings from WP Thread in C2 Old Forums and UK Forums
History of the WP: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=0
Training (vs. Exercise), Specificity & Pace: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=14
Why Interval Training? http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=468
L3 guidelines – continuous or interval: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=509
Ratio of L3 to L4 distance/week: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=511
Notes on Level 4: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=43
Creating Level 4 Workouts: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=60
L4 Comments 1: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=203
L4 Comments 2: Comments: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=284
L4 and Reference Pace: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=326
The Importance of Pacing: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=74
Pacing Continued: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=85
Pacing Part 3: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&&start=104
L4 for newbies & 4x1K Pacing: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=157
WP – Experienced vs Novice: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=53
Rate of improvement (Notes for Novices): http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=310
Use of Guidelines: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=410
Reference Pace & Intensity: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=554
Workouts that closely relate to 2K ability: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=211
Pace and Rate – ‘Suggested Rates’: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=381
Warming Up: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=242
Recovery: http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... start=3452
2005 WP Thread: http://www.concept2.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... &sk=t&sd=a
The Myth of Lactate Tolerance: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=299
Off Season: http://c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=4190&start=580
*** NOTE: This is not a complete list of all of Mike's postings in the old WP thread, but a selection of those I found most comprehensive on the topics that seem to come up the most in WP discussions.
Useful information on the WP from other sources
Updated L4 Pace charts (incl. odd stroke rates): http://www.machars.net/wolverine/l4tables.xls
L4 Pace Chart Spreadsheet created by SnailSpace: http://www.eudemonia.co.uk/wplevel4.xls
L4 Table (for 1:42 Reference Pace) - created by Barry Turner: http://www.ergouk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
I will do my best to update/correct this index as new or better information comes to light.
New Wolverine Plan Thread
New Wolverine Plan Thread
Last edited by pmacaula on February 21st, 2009, 11:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Wolverine Thread
Thanks Patrick. Hope this will become a good active thread.
Your cataloging of references to the old threads all in one spot looks pretty comprehensive.
Most of my WP info is printed out and has various coffee spills over some pages becasue they were stored in a paper folder. So this will make a good refresh.
Some where down the line I ran across or had sent to me a WP Training Spreadsheet that calculated all the workouts and paces and , I believe watts. It had someone else's training on it and I had trouble downloading all the macros through my firewalls. But I might relocate it and post it here so hopefully someone can reconfigure for general use. Unless whoever, wrote the code tells me it's protected and not for public consumption.
ST
Your cataloging of references to the old threads all in one spot looks pretty comprehensive.
Most of my WP info is printed out and has various coffee spills over some pages becasue they were stored in a paper folder. So this will make a good refresh.
Some where down the line I ran across or had sent to me a WP Training Spreadsheet that calculated all the workouts and paces and , I believe watts. It had someone else's training on it and I had trouble downloading all the macros through my firewalls. But I might relocate it and post it here so hopefully someone can reconfigure for general use. Unless whoever, wrote the code tells me it's protected and not for public consumption.
ST
M 64 76 kg
"Sit Down! Row Hard! Go Nowhere!"
"Sit Down! Row Hard! Go Nowhere!"
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Bill Moore
- Paddler
- Posts: 49
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 11:02 pm
- Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
I have the spreadsheet that calculates the workouts. There are notes from Chris Galley, so if we can find him, we should be able to find the original spreadsheet, since I may have made changes to it.
I'm wrapping up a 5 week build-up so I can get back on the plan next week. I'm looking forward to the variety of workouts instead of the straight rows I've been doing.
I use RowPro and print off all of the workouts, which I keep in a binder with tabs for each workout. This helps with setting a pace for a particular workout, since I'll try to get the same pace for each interval, and not start too fast and not finish. It also gives me a personal comparison between workouts. For example, I know that I can do an 8x500 4 seconds faster than a 4x1k, and a L1 Pyramid is right between the other two. I also have kept a printed copy of the plan along with several of Mike's clarifying posts in the binder. (I know some of you are just as particular on the numbers, so I'm not that embarrased over this "nerd" approach to tracking my workouts!)
Thanks for posting this thread. At a minimum, it can be a support group for those of us who actually read the plan and are using it for our workouts. It took awhile for me to "get" the L4 workouts. I have notes next next to the erg for these workouts, so I can hit the pace and rate combinations and not overstroke the 10' intervals.
I also use a HR monitor and the Analyze function in RowPro to track improvements. For example, I didn't feel that great before my row last night, but I finished it with a 4% decrease in pace and a 5% decrease in HR, so actually it was a net performance increase.
Let me know if you'd like a copy of the spreadsheet again, so we can post it here.
I'm wrapping up a 5 week build-up so I can get back on the plan next week. I'm looking forward to the variety of workouts instead of the straight rows I've been doing.
I use RowPro and print off all of the workouts, which I keep in a binder with tabs for each workout. This helps with setting a pace for a particular workout, since I'll try to get the same pace for each interval, and not start too fast and not finish. It also gives me a personal comparison between workouts. For example, I know that I can do an 8x500 4 seconds faster than a 4x1k, and a L1 Pyramid is right between the other two. I also have kept a printed copy of the plan along with several of Mike's clarifying posts in the binder. (I know some of you are just as particular on the numbers, so I'm not that embarrased over this "nerd" approach to tracking my workouts!)
Thanks for posting this thread. At a minimum, it can be a support group for those of us who actually read the plan and are using it for our workouts. It took awhile for me to "get" the L4 workouts. I have notes next next to the erg for these workouts, so I can hit the pace and rate combinations and not overstroke the 10' intervals.
I also use a HR monitor and the Analyze function in RowPro to track improvements. For example, I didn't feel that great before my row last night, but I finished it with a 4% decrease in pace and a 5% decrease in HR, so actually it was a net performance increase.
Let me know if you'd like a copy of the spreadsheet again, so we can post it here.
Last edited by Bill Moore on November 25th, 2008, 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spreadsheets
Bill & ST - thanks for the support.
Bill - Posting a link to the spreadsheet would be great.
Do much as you do with RowPro, but manually with a PM2 and my own spreadsheet. It is set up so I can print out a one-pager (includes targets, paces, etc) for each workout. I prop it up by the erg, then fill in the actuals either at the end of the workout or during recovery intervals if the PM2 can't handle the structure of the workout. I key in actuals some time later. Spreadsheet tracks day-to-day and week-to-week progress against seasonal targets.
In some way, building my own spreadsheet felt like a rite of passage for the WP. Ten weeks in, I am still learning, refining and augmenting.
Only problem is how personalized the spreadsheet is. Would not post, as it would likely create more confusion rather than less. May try to strip it down to a few specific tools (i.e L4 workout assistant) for broader consumption some day. Think that would need to wait for at least the end of a full season of following the WP.
Generically, that is my concern about spreadsheets. There seem to be a few floating out there, some of which (at least as far as I interpret them)materially diverge from the intent of the WP.
Cheers. Patrick.
Bill - Posting a link to the spreadsheet would be great.
Do much as you do with RowPro, but manually with a PM2 and my own spreadsheet. It is set up so I can print out a one-pager (includes targets, paces, etc) for each workout. I prop it up by the erg, then fill in the actuals either at the end of the workout or during recovery intervals if the PM2 can't handle the structure of the workout. I key in actuals some time later. Spreadsheet tracks day-to-day and week-to-week progress against seasonal targets.
In some way, building my own spreadsheet felt like a rite of passage for the WP. Ten weeks in, I am still learning, refining and augmenting.
Only problem is how personalized the spreadsheet is. Would not post, as it would likely create more confusion rather than less. May try to strip it down to a few specific tools (i.e L4 workout assistant) for broader consumption some day. Think that would need to wait for at least the end of a full season of following the WP.
Generically, that is my concern about spreadsheets. There seem to be a few floating out there, some of which (at least as far as I interpret them)materially diverge from the intent of the WP.
Cheers. Patrick.
The WP plan is for 2000m races. I haven't raced 2000m in over 25 years hence this post.
MC has said very little about adapting the WP to other distances. What I recall him writing can be summarized as follows:
1) for 5K he would not change the WP at all.
2) For a "Costal 12K race" a couple of months away he recommended doing as much L3 and L4 as possible
3) For a marathon training I asked him whether is was better to build distance gradually maintain pace (classic L3 progression during a season) or to do build endurance by increase distance first and bring up the pace later. He wrote that he thought the later was preferable but hasn't done the experiment to confirm it.
There was a thread asking about the WP for 1000m races (masters OTW distance). MC did not respond so either he didn't see it or he agreed with the responses and saw no need to comment. Basically the response was to keep everything the same except do some shorter L1 intervals and emphasis weight training a bit more. For the L1 intervals do 10x400 or 12x300 instead of 8x500 and do 5 x 750 or 5x800 instead of the the 4x1000m
I responded to the Costal 12K question before Mike did and advised keeping the L2 intervals. My logic being that you want one workout more intense then race pace. I was a bit surprised that Mike said nothing about L2's but then I realized that the L3 intervals were faster then race pace. Hopefully this is what he had in mind. If not it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I did do an OTW marathon this summer and did build the distance steadily without trying to maintain pace one day a week. I did weekly workouts of 26-35K and one full marathon workout in the two months before the race. I think that worked very well for me. I did a good strong negatively split race and was comfortable throughout the race. I had none of the problems with the seat, hands or weird aches and pains one can get when racing a much longer distance than one is used to. I did cut out the L1 workouts but kept the L2. I picked up the L1's again after the marathon. I thought this was a good plan for the 5K races I would be doing for the fall head season shortly after the marathon and didn't think eliminating the L2's would help that much for the marathon.
I'd be interested to hear what other think.
MC has said very little about adapting the WP to other distances. What I recall him writing can be summarized as follows:
1) for 5K he would not change the WP at all.
2) For a "Costal 12K race" a couple of months away he recommended doing as much L3 and L4 as possible
3) For a marathon training I asked him whether is was better to build distance gradually maintain pace (classic L3 progression during a season) or to do build endurance by increase distance first and bring up the pace later. He wrote that he thought the later was preferable but hasn't done the experiment to confirm it.
There was a thread asking about the WP for 1000m races (masters OTW distance). MC did not respond so either he didn't see it or he agreed with the responses and saw no need to comment. Basically the response was to keep everything the same except do some shorter L1 intervals and emphasis weight training a bit more. For the L1 intervals do 10x400 or 12x300 instead of 8x500 and do 5 x 750 or 5x800 instead of the the 4x1000m
I responded to the Costal 12K question before Mike did and advised keeping the L2 intervals. My logic being that you want one workout more intense then race pace. I was a bit surprised that Mike said nothing about L2's but then I realized that the L3 intervals were faster then race pace. Hopefully this is what he had in mind. If not it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I did do an OTW marathon this summer and did build the distance steadily without trying to maintain pace one day a week. I did weekly workouts of 26-35K and one full marathon workout in the two months before the race. I think that worked very well for me. I did a good strong negatively split race and was comfortable throughout the race. I had none of the problems with the seat, hands or weird aches and pains one can get when racing a much longer distance than one is used to. I did cut out the L1 workouts but kept the L2. I picked up the L1's again after the marathon. I thought this was a good plan for the 5K races I would be doing for the fall head season shortly after the marathon and didn't think eliminating the L2's would help that much for the marathon.
I'd be interested to hear what other think.
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Bill Moore
- Paddler
- Posts: 49
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 11:02 pm
- Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
I just reviewed some WP discussion from the old forum, and I can see how much my understanding of this has grown since that time. Here is a discussion on how I'm getting back on the plan:
I just started back on the WP last night. I had built up my weekly meters over the past 5 weeks from 48k to 92k. I did 6 workouts per week beginning with 8k for the first week and ended up at 12k with 3,500m of total warmup/cooldown for last week. These were pretty big jumps in total distance from week to week, but I'll be limiting the increases to 3-5% per week going forward.
I did not do a new 2k to find a reference pace this time. My PB is 7:01 from 2005. My best 12k last week was at a 2:07.4 pace, so I'll be using a 1:50 reference pace, figuring that I can do 2:10 long L3 workouts. Establishing a successful base of first workouts was a challenge in 2005, so I'm setting this year's paces based on that experience. Here are my goal paces for the next 3 weeks: 8x500-1:52, L1 Pyramid- 1:54, 4x1k-1:56, L2 - 2:03, Long L3 - 2:08, and 15x3'-2:05.
I began with a 40' L4 last night (172/176/172/176). My rate/pace combos are: 16/2:18, 18/2:13, 20/2:08. I exceeded the goal distance on all 4, but I over stroked the 176 sets, probably because of the 20 rate thrown in the middle. My actual strokes were 170/180/170/180. I have a hard time slowing the rate down, but speeding up isn't a problem. These workouts are a challenge to maintain that fine balance with the rate/pace goals, and then a creeping fatigue settles into the glutes. I'll repeat this workout on Wednesday to get the total strokes down below the goal.
Sundays are for L4 workouts. I'll add 10' per week to my total weekly L4 time, so next Sunday will be 50'.
Tonight is L1 8x500 @ 1:52. I do active recovery for 500m @ 2:35 and do not stop between intervals. My goal is to have just finish with each interval just at or below 1:52, and not feel like I have to quit. Finishing these first interval workouts is more important than the pace, so that a performance base is established and I can carry that confidence into the next time I do this workout. (Also note that my L1 & L2 warmups are 5.5k, and the cooldown is 1.5k. The first 3k of warmup is a steady buildup toward 2:10 or a bit faster, then I'll do a 250 @ 1:52, and back off for another 500, followed by a power 20 @ 1:45 or faster and back off until 4.5k, then a power 10 @ 1:40, and then back off until 5.5k. It's a long warmup, but it's effective.)
Tuesday is a long L3. In this case it's 12.5k @ 2:10. I'll be adding 500m each week and keep the same pace. (My L3 warmup is 3.5k and the cooldown is 1.5k. I'll throw in a power 10 at the 2k, 2.5k, and 3k marks).
Wednesday is another L4. (My L4 warmup is 15' and the cooldown is 5'. No bursts here, but I will try to get the feel for the rate/pace combos in the warmup).
Thursday is for L2. This week is 5x1.5k. I recall that this was the most fun of the L2 workouts. In the 3 week rotation, I'll match the 8x500 with the 5x1.5k, the L1 Pyramid with the 4x2k, and the 4x1k with the L2 Pyramid. This seemed to be the best layout for me and it keeps the 4x2k away from the 4x1k, which are the toughest of the interval workouts for me.
Friday is a day off. Getting rest is so important, and having the weekly "vacation" is a good goal during the week. I feel recharged after this day off. (On the dark side, having a day off also gives me scheduling flexibility if something comes up, but it's much better having the day off on the same day each week so that I'm not going for more than 6 days in a row. I did 11 days straight in the last 5 weeks, but I feel it's much better to be on schedule).
Saturday is L3 15x'3 @ 2:07. I can do this about 3 seconds faster than the long L3s. It's a mentally tough workout about the 45' mark, when the fatigue starts to kick in.
That's the basic workout layout for me as I get back on the WP. I hope that it can inspire those who have just been reading the plan and not doing it. I found that it was a refreshing change from the workouts I was doing, and that I could handle more a lot meters per week with this format.
I just started back on the WP last night. I had built up my weekly meters over the past 5 weeks from 48k to 92k. I did 6 workouts per week beginning with 8k for the first week and ended up at 12k with 3,500m of total warmup/cooldown for last week. These were pretty big jumps in total distance from week to week, but I'll be limiting the increases to 3-5% per week going forward.
I did not do a new 2k to find a reference pace this time. My PB is 7:01 from 2005. My best 12k last week was at a 2:07.4 pace, so I'll be using a 1:50 reference pace, figuring that I can do 2:10 long L3 workouts. Establishing a successful base of first workouts was a challenge in 2005, so I'm setting this year's paces based on that experience. Here are my goal paces for the next 3 weeks: 8x500-1:52, L1 Pyramid- 1:54, 4x1k-1:56, L2 - 2:03, Long L3 - 2:08, and 15x3'-2:05.
I began with a 40' L4 last night (172/176/172/176). My rate/pace combos are: 16/2:18, 18/2:13, 20/2:08. I exceeded the goal distance on all 4, but I over stroked the 176 sets, probably because of the 20 rate thrown in the middle. My actual strokes were 170/180/170/180. I have a hard time slowing the rate down, but speeding up isn't a problem. These workouts are a challenge to maintain that fine balance with the rate/pace goals, and then a creeping fatigue settles into the glutes. I'll repeat this workout on Wednesday to get the total strokes down below the goal.
Sundays are for L4 workouts. I'll add 10' per week to my total weekly L4 time, so next Sunday will be 50'.
Tonight is L1 8x500 @ 1:52. I do active recovery for 500m @ 2:35 and do not stop between intervals. My goal is to have just finish with each interval just at or below 1:52, and not feel like I have to quit. Finishing these first interval workouts is more important than the pace, so that a performance base is established and I can carry that confidence into the next time I do this workout. (Also note that my L1 & L2 warmups are 5.5k, and the cooldown is 1.5k. The first 3k of warmup is a steady buildup toward 2:10 or a bit faster, then I'll do a 250 @ 1:52, and back off for another 500, followed by a power 20 @ 1:45 or faster and back off until 4.5k, then a power 10 @ 1:40, and then back off until 5.5k. It's a long warmup, but it's effective.)
Tuesday is a long L3. In this case it's 12.5k @ 2:10. I'll be adding 500m each week and keep the same pace. (My L3 warmup is 3.5k and the cooldown is 1.5k. I'll throw in a power 10 at the 2k, 2.5k, and 3k marks).
Wednesday is another L4. (My L4 warmup is 15' and the cooldown is 5'. No bursts here, but I will try to get the feel for the rate/pace combos in the warmup).
Thursday is for L2. This week is 5x1.5k. I recall that this was the most fun of the L2 workouts. In the 3 week rotation, I'll match the 8x500 with the 5x1.5k, the L1 Pyramid with the 4x2k, and the 4x1k with the L2 Pyramid. This seemed to be the best layout for me and it keeps the 4x2k away from the 4x1k, which are the toughest of the interval workouts for me.
Friday is a day off. Getting rest is so important, and having the weekly "vacation" is a good goal during the week. I feel recharged after this day off. (On the dark side, having a day off also gives me scheduling flexibility if something comes up, but it's much better having the day off on the same day each week so that I'm not going for more than 6 days in a row. I did 11 days straight in the last 5 weeks, but I feel it's much better to be on schedule).
Saturday is L3 15x'3 @ 2:07. I can do this about 3 seconds faster than the long L3s. It's a mentally tough workout about the 45' mark, when the fatigue starts to kick in.
That's the basic workout layout for me as I get back on the WP. I hope that it can inspire those who have just been reading the plan and not doing it. I found that it was a refreshing change from the workouts I was doing, and that I could handle more a lot meters per week with this format.
I have been thinking about what the best way to get back into the WP is after a break, and bring this up after Bill's seems appropriate.
After a very long break I do think it is reasonable to do several weeks of base building, but I would never do what Bill did-- six work outs of the same length each week sounds really boring. Some variation in distance and pace seems like a much better way, both mentally and to get one used to different stroke ratings and paces.
I travel in October for work and had about a two week break from rowing. Only got a few workouts in hotel gyms and swimming pools. When I got back it took over a week before I got back to intervals. After a break, intervals always feel awful so I usually take some time doing longer stuff first. I'm not wondering how much of a mistake this is and that I am probably better off just doing them more slowly at first.
I don't recall MC specifically address this issue so I assume he would recommend starting up with the WP after a break, but I'm not sure.
I've just taken a bit of break from the erg (about two weeks)--partially because my forearms have been bothering me and partially because I just finished the head season. I've been swimming and cycling so am still in shape. When I get back to the erg I think I will try jumping in with the full WP workouts only a bit slower and see how it goes.
I'm Curious what has worked for other people.
After a very long break I do think it is reasonable to do several weeks of base building, but I would never do what Bill did-- six work outs of the same length each week sounds really boring. Some variation in distance and pace seems like a much better way, both mentally and to get one used to different stroke ratings and paces.
I travel in October for work and had about a two week break from rowing. Only got a few workouts in hotel gyms and swimming pools. When I got back it took over a week before I got back to intervals. After a break, intervals always feel awful so I usually take some time doing longer stuff first. I'm not wondering how much of a mistake this is and that I am probably better off just doing them more slowly at first.
I don't recall MC specifically address this issue so I assume he would recommend starting up with the WP after a break, but I'm not sure.
I've just taken a bit of break from the erg (about two weeks)--partially because my forearms have been bothering me and partially because I just finished the head season. I've been swimming and cycling so am still in shape. When I get back to the erg I think I will try jumping in with the full WP workouts only a bit slower and see how it goes.
I'm Curious what has worked for other people.
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Bill Moore
- Paddler
- Posts: 49
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 11:02 pm
- Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
For my buildup, I used my heart rate as a speed limit to a point. In the beginning I was doing about a 2:18. My paces came down with the same HR. I then threw in some sub-2:10 for the 10k and I noticed the next HR limited row was faster than the previous one. Yes, this was boring, but I wanted to get up to about 90k the week before starting the WP. BUT, it was only 5 weeks, and it's over now.
I do know that when I first jumped into the WP, I had a significant jump in total distance that first week, but that it didn't seem to bother me. (Looking back at my 2005 log, I was varying the distance per workout. My weekly meters were 43, 46, 53, 52, and then 29k before I jumped in. The first week on the plan was only 49k and I did a 4x1k, 5x1.5k, and a L4-40' piece. The second week was 112k over 6 workouts).
So, I tried to learn from my past and build up without a break and I'm now on the plan with a history of 6 weekly sessions and not a huge jump in weekly meters. (I grew up in competitive swimming, so long, boring, sustained workouts are a part of my psyche even though I was a sprinter).
My overall impression is to just start the WP wherever you are. Come on in...the water's fine. (Of course the water in this case is the sweat beading on every exposed bit of skin and dripping all over your erg.)
I do know that when I first jumped into the WP, I had a significant jump in total distance that first week, but that it didn't seem to bother me. (Looking back at my 2005 log, I was varying the distance per workout. My weekly meters were 43, 46, 53, 52, and then 29k before I jumped in. The first week on the plan was only 49k and I did a 4x1k, 5x1.5k, and a L4-40' piece. The second week was 112k over 6 workouts).
So, I tried to learn from my past and build up without a break and I'm now on the plan with a history of 6 weekly sessions and not a huge jump in weekly meters. (I grew up in competitive swimming, so long, boring, sustained workouts are a part of my psyche even though I was a sprinter).
My overall impression is to just start the WP wherever you are. Come on in...the water's fine. (Of course the water in this case is the sweat beading on every exposed bit of skin and dripping all over your erg.)
Ramping up on the WP.
Bill -
Like your approach to matching up the different L1 & L2 workouts. I made the mistake of putting 4x1K & 4x2K in the same week once. Urg.
In your 100K, do you count W/U and recovery metres ?
Recall that Mike C. said he counted W/U as part of the work, but not the recovery distance between intervals or the w/d.
Nosmo - I found that from a base of about 20-30K/week of effectively unstructured 20-40' workouts, it felt ok to ramp up volume over about three weeks to full target volume on the L1/L2/L4 sessions in 6 workout/week program, though the long L3s taking took a few extra weeks get to the target 60' duration (mental issues more than physical). Then again, my guess at Ref Pace was relatively conservative & things have been a bit tougher since I re-set it based on an actual max 2K.
Have arrived at work distance of about 65K, with one workout each of L1 (4K), L2 (8K), L3(13-16K) plus 3 L4 sessions (40+K; two 60'workouts and one interval workout ranging between 40' & 80'). About 40-45K of W/u+recovery+c/d metres each week for a total of about 105-110K/week.
Agree getting the discipline to execute L4s on target for both stroke rate and pace is tricky.
On L4s, found that I can easily hit the # of strokes, but the pace is tougher; likely because I feel the need to meet/beat the pace target & with only a mm:ss pace guide on the PM2, I end up pulling every stroke on target pace or faster.
From a few discussions with Nosmo, we are pretty sure Mike C's view is that the discipline of hitting both targets dead on in L4 (not going over or under) is the game. Going over may be less bad than under, but still not what you want to do.
Going a bit faster than target feels good when I am doing the workout, but think I have caused myself trouble in some of the L1/L2/L3 sessions because I put too much into the previous day's L4. Clearly I am not disciplined enough (yet)
Cheers. Patrick.
Cheers. Patrick.
Like your approach to matching up the different L1 & L2 workouts. I made the mistake of putting 4x1K & 4x2K in the same week once. Urg.
In your 100K, do you count W/U and recovery metres ?
Recall that Mike C. said he counted W/U as part of the work, but not the recovery distance between intervals or the w/d.
Nosmo - I found that from a base of about 20-30K/week of effectively unstructured 20-40' workouts, it felt ok to ramp up volume over about three weeks to full target volume on the L1/L2/L4 sessions in 6 workout/week program, though the long L3s taking took a few extra weeks get to the target 60' duration (mental issues more than physical). Then again, my guess at Ref Pace was relatively conservative & things have been a bit tougher since I re-set it based on an actual max 2K.
Have arrived at work distance of about 65K, with one workout each of L1 (4K), L2 (8K), L3(13-16K) plus 3 L4 sessions (40+K; two 60'workouts and one interval workout ranging between 40' & 80'). About 40-45K of W/u+recovery+c/d metres each week for a total of about 105-110K/week.
Agree getting the discipline to execute L4s on target for both stroke rate and pace is tricky.
On L4s, found that I can easily hit the # of strokes, but the pace is tougher; likely because I feel the need to meet/beat the pace target & with only a mm:ss pace guide on the PM2, I end up pulling every stroke on target pace or faster.
From a few discussions with Nosmo, we are pretty sure Mike C's view is that the discipline of hitting both targets dead on in L4 (not going over or under) is the game. Going over may be less bad than under, but still not what you want to do.
Going a bit faster than target feels good when I am doing the workout, but think I have caused myself trouble in some of the L1/L2/L3 sessions because I put too much into the previous day's L4. Clearly I am not disciplined enough (yet)
Cheers. Patrick.
Cheers. Patrick.
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Bill Moore
- Paddler
- Posts: 49
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 11:02 pm
- Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
I am counting all meters for total weekly distance, even though those aren't technically work meters, so adjust the weekly totals to your workout accordingly. I do about 35k in weekly WU/CD meters plus the active recovery meters. I'm also using RowPro, which includes them, so it's just easier to calculate on the larger number. I don't think my weekly % increases would still be too much if I carved these meters out.
For L4, I concentrate on rate first, then get to the pace. Mike said it simply takes practice to get the feel for the exact rate/pace. I wasn't able to hit them exactly for more than 3 in a row last night. I don't have a problem with a faster pace if the rate is on target right now. Last night, I was only over the goal distance by 60 meters, or less than 1%. With more experience, I'll be able to be on target for more of the workout.
I won't re-set my reference pace until after April. I use the HR monitor to see how much stress is occuring during the workouts, so unless the L4s fall to less than 130 bpm, I'll still be benefiting from the current reference pace. It was deceptive to be moving so "slow" and still see the HR creep up over 140 a bit last night and begin to sweat. Sweating even feels different with an L4. It's like I'm slowly squeezing it out of my body.
For L4, I concentrate on rate first, then get to the pace. Mike said it simply takes practice to get the feel for the exact rate/pace. I wasn't able to hit them exactly for more than 3 in a row last night. I don't have a problem with a faster pace if the rate is on target right now. Last night, I was only over the goal distance by 60 meters, or less than 1%. With more experience, I'll be able to be on target for more of the workout.
I won't re-set my reference pace until after April. I use the HR monitor to see how much stress is occuring during the workouts, so unless the L4s fall to less than 130 bpm, I'll still be benefiting from the current reference pace. It was deceptive to be moving so "slow" and still see the HR creep up over 140 a bit last night and begin to sweat. Sweating even feels different with an L4. It's like I'm slowly squeezing it out of my body.
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Mike Caviston
- 2k Poster
- Posts: 281
- Joined: April 20th, 2006, 10:37 pm
- Location: Coronado, CA
Re: Ramping up on the WP.
I think some of the comments I’ve made over the years may have waffled a little from this statement a bit regarding the specific importance of hitting both targets. For the record, after a lot of experimentation, I do indeed feel it is best to try to hit both targets as closely as possible at all times. Precision with rate will precede precision with pace. Going a little beyond your goal for pace on days you are feeling good will probably not do serious harm, but I still recommend holding back and trying to get your distance goals as exactly as you can. For those new to the Level 4 format, these skills don’t happen overnight. Be patient and accept gradual improvement until one day you realize you can easily hit all your targets without even thinking about it.pmacaula wrote:From a few discussions with Nosmo, we are pretty sure Mike C's view is that the discipline of hitting both targets dead on in L4 (not going over or under) is the game. Going over may be less bad than under, but still not what you want to do.
Here’s a general question for anybody who has an opinion. Why do so many people do the same few Level 1 sessions time after time? I like to hit the obvious formats regularly (8 x 500m or 4 x 1K) to check my progress against a format that I’m familiar with and know how to pace, but I also like to be creative with different sessions for variety, as long as they satisfy the general Level 1 parameters I’ve established.
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Bill Moore
- Paddler
- Posts: 49
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 11:02 pm
- Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
We only do what you wrote down Mike... My guess is that most people just want a simple plan to follow without thinking about it. For those who do think about it, I think variety should come after a solid understanding of the basics which has to come with actually working with the parameters and not just reading about it. I've read parts of the WP and not understood them until I actually did the workout and re-read the plan. Once I get to a solid understanding of the plan that is backed up with solid performance, I'll look to mix it up a bit.
Re: Ramping up on the WP.
Mike - thanks for the clarification. Over 10 weeks, have done 31 L4 workouts for a total of approximately 400K metres & as you say, am gradually improving.Mike Caviston wrote:Precision with rate will precede precision with pace....I still recommend holding back and trying to get your distance goals as exactly as you can...these skills don’t happen overnight. Be patient and accept gradual improvement...
This is the set of L1 workouts I am familiar with & have tried. All have been covered in previous posts by you and you have provided some guidance on how to set paces for them.Mike Caviston wrote:Why do so many people do the same few Level 1 sessions time after time? ... I like to hit the obvious formats regularly...but I also like to be creative with different sessions for variety...
8 x 500m
4 x 1000m
250m + 5x750m
4K Pyramid - 250/500/750/1k/750/500/250
I like the 3rd and 4th sequences & do one or the other as the 3rd L1 in a 3 week cycle that includes a 8x500 and a 4x1K and every second cycle, a 2K test.
Given my limited experience w/ the WP, I find it a bit easier to gauge progress and set target paces based on workouts for which there is a well understood relationship with a 2K.
I agree with Bill - it is likely only a few people have the confidence & experience to stray from the 'basics'.
I would be curious to know if this is the same for people who are in a second or third season of following a D-I-Y WP program or who are following a WP under supervision of a suitably qualified coach.
Cheers. Patrick.
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Bill Moore
- Paddler
- Posts: 49
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 11:02 pm
- Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
My first interval workout in 3 years was tonight and was the 8x500 with a 1:52 goal pace. The warmup felt great, but the 4th interval was a bear until I noticed it was actually only the third one!!!
Here are the results:
1:51.9/1:51.8/1:51.8/1:52.0/1:55.8/1:54.3/1:54.8/1:50.9
For an average of 1:52.9.
HR hit 169 on the 4th one and 171 on the last one. My L1 goal paces should have been 1:56, but I had experience with the 8x500 being 4 seconds faster. I guess my body forgot about that experience. I backed off on the 5th one to 1:56, and that felt sustainable...in fact I was able to go a bit faster, and still had some left over for the last one.
I'm glad it's out of the way now. Next time the goal pace will be 1:52, with a tighter grouping. I won't do this for another 3 weeks, so there will be an added training benefit, or I'd stick with a 1:53 goal pace.
Here are the results:
1:51.9/1:51.8/1:51.8/1:52.0/1:55.8/1:54.3/1:54.8/1:50.9
For an average of 1:52.9.
HR hit 169 on the 4th one and 171 on the last one. My L1 goal paces should have been 1:56, but I had experience with the 8x500 being 4 seconds faster. I guess my body forgot about that experience. I backed off on the 5th one to 1:56, and that felt sustainable...in fact I was able to go a bit faster, and still had some left over for the last one.
I'm glad it's out of the way now. Next time the goal pace will be 1:52, with a tighter grouping. I won't do this for another 3 weeks, so there will be an added training benefit, or I'd stick with a 1:53 goal pace.
L4 and Reference Pace
Bill - am interested in how you set your rate of progress for # of strokes in each L4. April seems like a long time from now.Bill Moore wrote:I won't re-set my reference pace until after April.
I have been following what I think is the basic approach. Started at 18spm and have been adding 2 strokes each workout, so about 6 strokes per week which is close to 0.1spm/week. Without any setbacks, that will put me around 20spm by the date of my target event/s in Feb '09.
From experience with L4 interval pieces at +2spm over the continuous L4 rate (7x6' & 4x10' at 3:1 work/recovery ratios), it is going to be one serious grunt to do 60' L4s in the high 19.x spm range.
If you applied a similar increase in L4 strokes, would think you would be way higher than 20spm by April.
Cheers. Patrick.