Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

On the other hand, maybe you have a screenshot of this 17' 5K?

I am just doing FM training now, putting in 40K a day, working on relaxation and consistency.

When I get to a FM @ 1:48, I'll have no problem doing a 5K at 16:30 when I am fully trained up for it.

If you work from the top down, all distance rows predict all other distance rows, formulaically.

Give it a try.

Train yourself to do a FM at 1:48.

Then train yourself to do a HM at 1:45.

Then train yourself to do a 10K at 1:42.

Then train for a 5K and see what you do.

No reason to break this sequence and race 5Ks when you are training for a FM and haven't even trained yet for a HM, 10K, 30min, or 6K.

ranger

[macroth]

On the other hand, maybe you have a screenshot of this 17' 5K?

I am just doing FM training now, putting in 40K a day, working on relaxation and consistency.

When I get to a FM @ 1:48, I'll have no problem doing a 5K at 16:30 when I am fully trained up for it.

If you work from the top down, all distance rows predict all other distance rows, formulaically.

Give it a try.

Train yourself to do a FM at 1:48.

Then train yourself to do a HM at 1:45.

Then train yourself to do a 10K at 1:42.

Then train for a 5K and see what you do.

No reason to break this sequence and race 5Ks when you are training for a FM and haven't even trained yet for a HM, 10K, 30min, or 6K.

ranger

That's pure, unadulterated BS, of course, but thanks anyway for clarifying that you can't currently pull 5000 continuous meters at 1:42@26spm. You never will, obviously, but that's another story.

[ranger]

Removed at request of thread initiator.

[Steve G]

Mike VB--

You row right about the same, both OTW and off.

Over 5K, you are about 15 seconds per 500m off of the times of the best young lightweights.

So, I find it odd that you would claim that better erg times would undermine your rowing OTW.

Sure, for novice oarsmen like me, moving a boat is still pretty different from spinning an erg, but it shouldn't be for you.

It isn't for other quality OTW rowers.

If you could do 5K OTW in, say, 16:30, as I will try to do this spring, rather than 18:00, as you do, it makes sense to claim that this would help your OTW rowing.

No?

ranger

Rich
You arent a novice rower, you have been doing it for years, wasnt there a time when you thought that this would involve being able to turn the thing?
You do seem such a slow learner!
BTW, which manual or training plan does it state working from a FM downwards is theonly way forward ?

Steve

[ranger]

You do seem such a slow learner!

Depends on what you are learning, Steve.

No veteran has ever rowed well.

I suspect that learning to do something unprecedented always takes a while.

I have done four intellectual projects in literary study (linguistics, stylistics, rhythmics, poetics), and am in the process of a fifth (modern poetry).

Each has taken me about a decade to work up to where I was making original contributions.

Rowing has now been about the same.

I have also been a skater, swimmer, canoeist, track runner, road runner, and marathon runner for a decade or so each.

I am in no hurry.

ranger

[ranger]

TW, which manual or training plan does it state working from a FM downwards is the only way forward?

The best one.

And why use ones that are worse, if you have access to the best?

ranger

[ranger]

Let's see who can hold 13 SPI, 26 spm, 119 df the longest. No breaks, no heart rate limits

Sure, if you get the drift of the magnitude of the accomplishment.

Our age and weight divisions differ by 16 seconds per 500m.

So, my doing 1:42 @ 26 spm (13 SPI) is like your doing 1:26 @ 34 spm (16 SPI).

Both are rowing well in and around WR 2K pace for our age and weight.

So, sure, give it a go.

See what you get.

5K @ 1:26 would be pretty impressive, if you can get there.

That's a 14:20 5K.

Waddell has done 14:58 for 5K, so it shouldn't be too hard to nose him out by a bit.

Sure, I think I can now do 5K, 1:42 @ 26 spm (13 SPI).

My pb is 1:43/17:10, from back in 2002-2003, but that was rowing poorly (10 SPI) at 32 spm and max drag (200+ df.) in a 1.5-to-1 ratio.

Because of my improved technique, I am much better than that now.

Just stroking naturally, I now would take 20% fewer strokes, do 30% more work per stroke, work for 30% less time per stroke, and maintain twice the ratio at half the drag.

ranger

[macroth]

Let's see who can hold 13 SPI, 26 spm, 119 df the longest. No breaks, no heart rate limits

Sure, if you get the drift of the magnitude of the accomplishment.

Our age and weight divisions differ by 16 seconds per 500m.

So, my 1:42 @ 26 spm (13 SPI) is like you doing 1:26 @ 34 spm (16 SPI).

Both are rowing well in and around WR 2K pace for our age and weight.

So, sure, give it a go.

See what you get.

5K @ 1:26 would be pretty impressive, if you can get there.

That's a 14:20 5K.

Waddell has done 14:58 for 5K, so it shouldn't be too hard to nose him out by a bit.

Sure, I think I can now do 5K, 1:42 @ 26 spm (13 SPI).

My pb is 1:43/17:10, from back in 2002-2003, but that was rowing poorly (10 SPI) at 32 spm and max drag (200+ df.) and a 1.5-to-1 ratio.

Because of my improved technique, I am much better than that now.

ranger

No, no, you misunderstand. You see, you have the fitness and technique of a 6:16 erger. All that's missing right now is a bit of habituation and regular sharpening. I, on the other hand, am a lowly 6:25-6:30 erger, in terms of fitness level and everything else, although I might be closer to race shape (EIRC in Paris a few weeks back) than you currently are. So age and weight don't matter here, the question is simply how long can you hold 1:42@26spm.

You say 5K? Let's see it. I'll give you a benchmark, albeit as an inferior erger, so that you can evaluate some of your current hypotheses. It's not about what I should do if I rowed well, I just want to help you gauge your current level.

[JimR]

I am just doing FM training now, putting in 40K a day

Wow! You have been saying up until recently that you really need to get your erging to 40K per day ... and all of a sudden ... you are there?!

What do you think lead to this breakthrough???

JimR

[Byron Drachman]

Feb 7, 2006: I have just been learning a quality OTW stroke. That project is now complete.

June 12, 2008: My stroke is now a dream to use, entirely relaxed. –snip--so my erging and OTW rowing have merged perfectly. My stroke is the same both OTW and off.

April 22, 2009: I have been doing dedicated and focused OTW rowing for five years.
--snip-- I am now ready to race OTW.

Oct 20, 2009: I put in a couple of million meters OTW this spring, summer, and fall

Oct 20, 2009: I now use the same stroke on the erg and I do in my 1x and I can sustain a pretty nice 2:00 @ 30 spm OTW.

Jan 31, 2010: Over the last seven years I have been working on technique (both OTW and off).

March 14, 2010: I am going to stay a stable 160 lbs. this summer so that I can kick Mike VB's butt OTW in my 1x at the Nationals.

June 27, 2010: given that I was just out in my Fluid, doing 1:56 @ 31 spm. No one my age is rowing any better, including Dietz and Spousta, who, between them, have won the Head of the Charles a couple of dozen times.

June 27, 2010: No need for Craftsbury, if I am rowing this well. No one my age is rowing any better.

August 27, 2010: Now, I row _very_ well, both OTW and off.

October 16, 2010: I do just fine in my boat. I have been rowing OTW for seven years.

October 17, 2010: I am doing _great_ in my OTW rowing.

Feb 17, 2011: Sure, for novice oarsmen like me --snip--

[ranger]

5K, 1:42 @ 26 spm, is 26 seconds under the 60s lwt WR, 10 seconds under the 60s hwt WR.

ranger

[JimR]

... --snip--

Byron! You know this is an erg training forum ... no sense in confusing things with OTW posting!

BTW ... three themes that are most amusing from ranger ...

1) "I row millions of meters OTW"
2) "I row tens of millions of meters on the erg"
3) "I own two houses worth a million"

#3 has been debunked completely, #2 was called out as BS, #1 is funny when you consider he hit a V8 in open water.

Also ... being the keeper of records ... can you tell me how much ranger beat everyone by at the HOTC this past year?

JimR

[ranger]

age and weight don't matter here

For a one-time performance, true.

For what you are doing in training from day to day, no.

If your goals are ambitious, as mine are, you have to be careful to keep your training orderly.

Otherwise, you will never reach your goals.

If your goals are modest, as yours are, you don't have these limitations.

Do whatever you want in training.

You'll reach your goals no matter what.

ranger

[JimR]

5K, 1:42 @ 26 spm, is 26 seconds under the 60s lwt WR, 10 seconds under the 60s hwt WR.

ranger

Interesting ... did you know that 5K, 1:41 @ 26 spm, is 36 seconds under the 60s lwt WR, 20 seconds under the 60s hwt WR???

JimR

[macroth]

But ranger, you said you were currently doing 20K -or is it 40K- of this training every day? You mean that's not true? This is all so confusing, you "do" 20-40K every day, but you "think" you can do 5K?

Maybe you do it in little snippets? Snippets of how much, that's what I'm curious about. What is it, 2-3 minutes before you have to ease up?