Ranger's training thread

[mikvan52]

Mike VB is a typical case in point.

Four years ago Mike pulled a 6:45 2K OTErg.

From here on out, Mike will have a hard time pulling 7:00.

Mike's 2K times OTErg are declining--precipitously--even though he is taking the very best advice available in order to try to get better.

ranger

He leaves out that between the 6:45 and now I keep on pulling good times lots faster than 7:00...
(More BS from our "blather"-mouth)

I spend my time concentrating on turning in good performances on the water.
I had the fastest 1k time in the 1x for all 55-59 men (including heavyweights) last year. I have never been beaten in any heat semi or final at masters nationals in the last two years.

rangers otoh, flew to BIRC and choked, dessicated as he was...

That said:
I am getting older. I expect to get slower.

We all know what ranger's tactic is here. Attack someone else when you can defend your own record or contentions about rowing in general.

Give it up, Rich.
Your tired strategy is transparent.

You remain one of the best there ever was... no more, no less. You should be happy. Don't chase your tail.

[mikvan52]

and Brunsie:

Try to think of what ranger says here as blog material...
He's too vain to post it in a blog. He seeks controversy and achieves that under a "training forum" smoke screen.

This is just banter, as he has also said.

[Bob S.]

deleted

[Bob S.]

So by your assertion Mike can increase his power 50% from where he is now simply by adjusting his technique. For that matter I guess you are saying that every veteran rower, now and for all of rowing history has had such poor technique that the same would be true of them. I would be fascinated to see the science behind this

Science?

Rowing is an art.

It involves doing these 21 things simultaneously.

Easier said than done!

OK then please explain the "art" to me. I really want to know how it works that adjusting the technique is going to make the power output go up by 50%. You do realize how huge a number that is for people who are already at the top of the rowing world. If you claimed 5% that would be one thing but you are claiming a 50% increase for the people that are already the best in the world. It may be true, I just want to understand the "art" or the "science" whatever the case may be that is behind it.

(1) Get good length. Get all the way to shins vertical at the catch. The front of your seat should be only six inches from front stops when you fire off with your legs.

(2) Keep your hips/back forward at a good angle when you fire off with your legs. Hold that angle until your legs are done. At this point, the handle should be over your feet.

(3) Get your weight securely up on the balls of your feet at the catch, driving with your quads. Do _not_ take the catch with your heels and hams.

(4) Relax your shoulders at the catch.

(5) Relax your core at the catch.

(6) After about .1 seconds set your heels and stand up on the footplate, flattening your legs out with your hams. As in (2), at this point, the handle should be over your feet.

(7) Open your hips and swing your back with your core.

(8) While you are swinging your back, roll back up onto the balls of your feet and drive down on the footplate with the front of your foot using your calves.

(9) Keep your shoulders relaxed even though you have engaged your core, back, and calves.

(10) Pull through with your arms into your chest.

(11) Keep your elbows level as you pull the handle into your chest.

(12) Get a substantial lean with your back at the finish.

(13) Keep in good contact with the footplate at the finish. Point your toes and push the footplate away from you by digging in with your toes.

(14) Recover your arms as quickly as they finish.

(15) When you recover your arms, sit up tall and push the handle down toward your knees.

(16) Keep your knees flat on the rail until the handle sweeps past them.

(17) Recover your back as quick and fully as you did when you engaged it in the drive, returning to shins vertical (Prep Position). As in (2) and (6), at this point the handle should be over your feet, legs flat on the rail.

(18) The movements from (1) to (16) should be _very_ fast, 3/8 of the stroke cycle, at the most. If you count "And-ONE-and-TWO-and-THREE-and-FOUR" as you do the stroke cycle as a whole, execute the movements from (1) to (16) in the first three pulses of this counting/beating: "And-ONE-and."

(19) Set you heels firmly when as you get into prep position.

(20) Break your knees and move the seat slowly toward the catch.

(21) As you do this, roll your weight slowly from your heels to the balls of your feet.

ranger

The quotes in this one seem a bit mixed up.

Bob S.

[snowleopard]

ranger,

When will you complete [and rank] your first continuous piece >= 2K rowing well as a lwt (i.e. >=13 SPI)?

(We should not forget that despite two Olympiads of training our hero has yet to complete a continuous piece that conforms to his 'rowing well' dictat for lwts.)

[ranger]

When will you complete [and rank] your first continuous piece >= 2K rowing well as a lwt (i.e. >=13 SPI)?

I have never done anything but 2Ks in competition as a lightweight.

Don't see any reason to change that.

The other distances are just training for the 2K.

No need to be at weight for them.

If I hit my targets, I will break all of the distance 60s _heavyweight_ WRs by a wide margin: 4-6 seconds per 500m, including the 60s hwt 2K WR (by two seconds per 500m).

Then, once my training is complete, I can get to weight and race a 2K as a lightweight.

A FM at 1:48 will be six seconds per 500m under the 60s _heavyweight_ FM WR, a _dozen_ seconds per 500m under the 60s lwt FM WR.

ranger

[ranger]

He leaves out that between the 6:45 and now I keep on pulling good times lots faster than 7:00

By the time your are 61, which will be my age at WIRC 2012, I suspect that 7:00 will a struggle for you, no?

Or do you have some training plan in mind that will slow down your quick decline and improve your 2K scores over the next couple of years?

ranger

[snowleopard]

When will you complete [and rank] your first continuous piece >= 2K rowing well as a lwt (i.e. >=13 SPI)?

I have never done anything but 2Ks in competition as a lightweight.

Again:

When will you complete [and rank] your first continuous piece >= 2K rowing well as a lwt (i.e. >=13 SPI)?

[Brunsie]

But if we followed you blindly for the 10 years and it turned out you were wrong you would have severely injured our ability to improve our rowing.

Not really, because, following the major training plans for rowing that are currently available, veteran rowers just get worse and worse--precipitously.

So they already "severely injure [your] ability to improve [your] rowing."

In fact, these plans say nothing at all about improving your rowing.

As was mentioned, they just assume that you will get better at rowing, if you just keep rowing badly (but pull harder).

The major plans for rowing are not about technique at all.

They all focus on fitness and race preparation, even though all veterans have declining fitness, and if a veteran has alreadyu prepared to race once, he/she already knows how to prepare to race again.

ranger

And yet, despite everything you say it is something other than your plan that has provided every single world class erg performance in the history of the sport. You are the only person on the entire planet using your method and it has failed you miserably since 2003 when you began stating that due to your technical improvement you "now row well", over and over and over.

I have seen quite a lot of information on improving your rowing stroke, I agree that most of the training plans do not offer that function as it would be impossible properly coach every individual on how to adjust their personal stroke to make it better as we are all very different. Even though rowing or erg'ing is not my focus, I only do it to improve fitness in another sport I have still spent a fair amount of time on how to row "properly" to get the most out of my efforts. When I started on December 13, 2010 I was hopeful you would show me a new revolutionary way to do it. I was wrong, while you state data on how to do it "properly" the only real evidence that comes forth from your efforts prove that your way is worse than any other way I have seen to date.

I for one am glad I did not blindly believe you from the start which I nearly did as you previously had the credentials to back up what you were saying. You have in my opinion completely destroyed all credibility that your previous WR rows had given you.

[Brunsie]

Mike VB is a typical case in point.

Four years ago Mike pulled a 6:45 2K OTErg.

From here on out, Mike will have a hard time pulling 7:00.

Mike's 2K times OTErg are declining--precipitously--even though he is taking the very best advice available in order to try to get better.

ranger

Perhaps, but you are having a hard time pulling a 7:00. Why do you use him as an example, you are a much better example.

[Brunsie]

Mike VB is a typical case in point.

Four years ago Mike pulled a 6:45 2K OTErg.

From here on out, Mike will have a hard time pulling 7:00.

Mike's 2K times OTErg are declining--precipitously--even though he is taking the very best advice available in order to try to get better.

ranger

He leaves out that between the 6:45 and now I keep on pulling good times lots faster than 7:00...
(More BS from our "blather"-mouth)

I spend my time concentrating on turning in good performances on the water.
I had the fastest 1k time in the 1x for all 55-59 men (including heavyweights) last year. I have never been beaten in any heat semi or final at masters nationals in the last two years.

rangers otoh, flew to BIRC and choked, dessicated as he was...

That said:
I am getting older. I expect to get slower.

We all know what ranger's tactic is here. Attack someone else when you can defend your own record or contentions about rowing in general.

Give it up, Rich.
Your tired strategy is transparent.

You remain one of the best there ever was... no more, no less. You should be happy. Don't chase your tail.

Oh I understand Mike, of course he does not say it but we all know it anyway. I started watching this thread about 6 months ago so I am very new at this but it is obvious what Ranger is really all about.

I normally ignore crap like this as I know arguing with such a person just brings us down to his very low level but for some reason I just could not stay out of it any more. I am willing to lower myself to argue with him precisely because of his tactics of attacking others instead of addressing the real debate. He has been unwilling to address the majority of my questions and concerns I have brought forward today because he knows there is no way to address it and save face. So it goes, ignore the issues, change the subject, restate already overstated garbage and attack others.

[Tinpusher]

It took ranger almost a month to realize that his much vaunted 20 point plan did in fact contain 21 points even though I told him so.

(11) Keep your elbows level as you pull the handle into your chest.

(11) Get a substantial lean with your back at the finish.

Two things of note:

1 - The 20 point training plan has two number 11s;
2 - You contradict yourself with your second number 11.

In a boat, if you use less layback and generate more speed at the finish with your hands and feet instead, your weight also stays more toward the stern, so you so do less fishing, bouncing the bow, bouncing the bow.

So which is it today? More or less layback?

But he never did decide whether he should use more or less layback. Which is it Rich, we need to know this crucial piece of information.

[Brunsie]

Earlier when asking for evidence I stated that a simple screenshot at the end of one of your 10K or 20K workouts you say you do everyday would be plenty of evidence. You completely ignored that post yet you chose to address other posts, I don't understand not only your hesitation to provide the evidence but your hesitation to even address the request.

Did it turn out that that is too much to ask?

Is that more difficult than setting up your video camera to film a few strokes and post the video instead as you have in the past. or is it more difficult than the screenshot of a force curve? I simply don't understand, it seems to me to be as simple as the latter and more simple than the former.

[NavigationHazard]

It's not too much to ask; it's too much to comply with. To adapt some lyrics from Steven Sondheim:

When You're a Fraud, from Ann Arbor's Northwest Side Story

When you're a fraud you're a fraud all through town
From your first lying post to your last handle down
When you're a fraud let them ask what they might
You've got no one around you can fake it all night
You're always alone, you're never unprotected
You're home on your own
When results are expected
We're misdirected!
Then you are set for another 10 years
When you never perform or get over your fears
When you're a fraud you stay -- a fraud!

[PaulH]

It doesn't matter how elegant your stroke curve was

Elegant?

The issues are effectiveness and efficiency.

ranger

For reference, PaulS didn't write the text quoted above (I did). So ranger is, once again, suspended as a reminder not to deliberately misquote others.