New member - Thoughts on my Model C

[tobiusnc]

Hello All,

I just wanted to introduce myself to the forum. I'm a 39 year old male in Vermont (USA) interested in rowing for fitness, and very excited to have just purchased my first rowing machine.

I just purchased a used Model C with a PM2+. I think I got a good deal on it at $200. The PM2+ didn't work initially, but I was able to get it running and based on a quick test, it looks like it's all working. The lifetime stats shows 318 (318km right) which seems to be low for a machine that's at least 15 years old, but I'd like to hear what others think. My plan is to use it pretty much as is for the winter, with the exception of probably upgrading the handle. Depending on how much I use it, I'll investigate an upgrade path next year (PM5, or sell it and get a Model D).

My initial impression based on a short test row and some visual inspection is the chain and seat slides are in good shape and running smoothly. The recovery seems good to me, so I believe the bungee is OK. I'll go through the maintenance items in the manual, but Is there anything else I should check prior to rowing in earnest?

As an aside, in a previous job (many years ago) I wrote some of the PM4 embedded software.

Thanks!

[Citroen]

Are you looking at the right odometer?
http://www.concept2.com/service/monitor ... -odometers

[tobiusnc]

Yes, definitely looking at the right odometer. I zeroed out the other one last night. Although, that one had a value of something line 20104. Doesn't really make sense. I'll have to check them again.

[Carl Watts]

The ODO is not 100% reliable, the four finger reset zeros everything.

Oil the chain and clean the slide and seat rollers. The shock cord needs replacing on mine now but if you row at low ratings and the chain is in great shape it still retracts fast enough. If your doing over 30spm you may need a new shock cord.

[tobiusnc]

Double-checked the odometers last night. The resettable odometer is displaying in meters, not km, so somthing around 20000 is definitely possible. Still doesn't mean it didn't get a 3 finger reset at some point, so it's not reliable, but based on the condition of the rest of the machine, it seems possible that's all the use it's seen. I'm psyched about having the rower, and feel like I practically stole it. I've watched the C2 videos on technique, so I have a good idea what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm sure my technique isn't very good, but at least it's not complete garbage. I have the sequence of motions pretty well, but I need to work on maintaining a straight back and relaxed/low shoulders, along with getting the proper lean back.

I must admit, some of the times I see posted in people profiles seem unreachable at this point, but hopefully I'll see steady improvement as my technique gets better. I'm 5'7" and about the fastest pace I can generate even for short bursts is around 1:50. I'm assuming height does impose some limits on how high a pace I can generate. What would be considered a good pace for a casual rower of my size?

Also, I checked my drag factors and 10 is around 230 and 1 is around 100-105. I know 230 is higher than what I've seen for the expected values, but as far as I can tell, the screens are all in place so I'm not sure what would make it high.

[sillbeer]

Welcome to the board. You can look at the logbook and see other peoples times for specific categories. If you haven't already, you can join a team and compete in team challenges. Also if you pick up RowPro you can row with other people online, makes it fun.

Good luck,

- Destin

[gregsmith01748]

I must admit, some of the times I see posted in people profiles seem unreachable at this point, but hopefully I'll see steady improvement as my technique gets better. I'm 5'7" and about the fastest pace I can generate even for short bursts is around 1:50. I'm assuming height does impose some limits on how high a pace I can generate. What would be considered a good pace for a casual rower of my size?
.

There s definitely a direct relationship between height and maximum speed. Natural build and muscle mass figures into it too. The very best rowers have incredible natural gifts AND they have trained really hard. The rest of us have to do the best we can with what we've got. At 5'7", it looks like you can still get faster, and increase your endurance.

Since I know I will never be the best, I found it most useful to compete with myself. I logged my pieces on the concept2 online logbook and it was really fun to work my way up the rankings.

I don't know if anyone has put together a formula to help handicap results based on height, I'd like to play with it if someone has.

[sillbeer]

I was injuring myself when I would run and compete against other people. I've learned to just compete with myself. I get better results and I have more fun.

- Destin

[Bob S.]

Being short is definitely a disadvantage in rowing and limb length also is an important factor. The main problem is the limitation on stroke length. Shorter rowers make up for having a shorter stroke length by using higher stroke rates than usual. That works, but it isn't easy. Some try to increase the stroke length by various means, such as overreaching, exaggerated layback, or pulling the handle up to the neck, but these are bad practices, producing inefficient strokes.

[Edward4492]

Interesting you picked up a model "C". I just wrapped up servicing (25) "C"'s at a crossfit box. Got 'em all up and running perfect. You could do some very inexpensive upgrades. New seat rollers complete with hardware are only $11.00 a piece, so for $22 you can get fresh rollers. Changing the bungee is another cheap fix. I forget the exact price, but around $20.00. Take a bunch of cell phone pics before you start so you can get it back properly. It's really not too difficult. Based on your drag numbers sounds as if the fan is clean, but I would probably clean it any way. Some guys like the old wooden handle (still available from C2 !). I find it too bulky, I prefer the newer plastic one (another $22).The only big hit would be a new monitor, might as well splurge for the PM5. nice back light and wireless HR pick up. So for well under $500 you're in business. Or hold off on the PM5 and sell it, in my area you'll easily get $400, and buy a new Model D. But ya really don't have to. $200 C2's don't last more than 24 hrs on Craig's list down my way. You got a deal.

Welcome aboard! Let the madness begin.

[Carl Watts]

If you want to get carried away with the Model C you can essentially turn it into a D by fitting a "Quiet Kit", which is a new shaft and sprocket a new chain and a couple of the soft chain guide rollers. For all intents and purposes it will then feel exactly the same as the Model D.

Personally I moved to the Plastic handle as the only change on the Model C, its a little wider, a little more ergonomic and is better if you have wider shoulders.

[tobiusnc]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, it's quite helpful. So I've had a few rowing sessions, and I'm experiencing something that I'm not sure if it's normal. I'm finding that at the catch (all the way forward) when I start to drive back, there's a noticeable amount of movement before I get any resistance. If I had to put a number on it, I'd guess the chain moves about 4 inches before I feel the catch. Given I'm a short-legged 5' 7", it feels like I lose too much of my leg push. Just wondering if it's more likely something in my technique, or that the bungee needs to be tightened/replaced. The chain seems to be retracting completely, but it's hard to tell if there's slack remaining that should be taken up.

[Carl Watts]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, it's quite helpful. So I've had a few rowing sessions, and I'm experiencing something that I'm not sure if it's normal. I'm finding that at the catch (all the way forward) when I start to drive back, there's a noticeable amount of movement before I get any resistance. If I had to put a number on it, I'd guess the chain moves about 4 inches before I feel the catch. Given I'm a short-legged 5' 7", it feels like I lose too much of my leg push. Just wondering if it's more likely something in my technique, or that the bungee needs to be tightened/replaced. The chain seems to be retracting completely, but it's hard to tell if there's slack remaining that should be taken up.

There is a one way bearing or "Clutch bearing" in the fan/flywheel assembly and it pays to put a tiny spot of grease on this every couple of years. This bearing is locking and unlocking on every stroke you take and if it starts to stick or slip you get movement before take up.

The most probable cause of the slack however is that your drive is currently not fast or explosive enough, the sprocket/shaft rpm has to exceed that of the flywheel before the bearing locks up and provides drive.

[Hillclimber]

Congrats on the Model C bargain! I just sold a C, which I had refurbished last year, and from that experience can strongly recommend:
New plastic handle - the angle really is more ergonomic, and it just feels better than the padded-wood handle
Quiet kit - simple to install, directions are clear; it's a replacement for the main drive cog that includes sound dampening design (edges of the chain sit on rubber, and there may be some vibration attenuating qualities). It works well.
New foot pads - I found the originals too narrow for some running shoes, the model D versions are about half-inch wider at the heal.
All bearings (seat, flywheel axel) - although sealed, if your C is as lightly used as you believe, the grease has likely dried up by now from non-use.
New chain - the nickel chain is just, well, nice
Bungee cord - if rarely used, simple aging would reduce the elasticity

All simple and inexpensive fixes. Your C will feel every bit like a D.

Welcome to erging!
Damien