new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Maintenance, accessories, operation. Anything to do with making your erg work.
jamesg
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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by jamesg » May 3rd, 2019, 3:02 am

I don't think I've ever got my machine below 2:00. I know I'm small, but I'm pretty fit and that seems really slow.
If young and male that is indeed slow as a peak effort, which suggests your home machine has a fault of some sort. I'm stuck on my old C which has the three magnets and didn't know the Ds (all of them?) have a different system.

The C2 rankings let us see what others can do at our age/weight/sex, which might help as a reference: https://log.concept2.com/rankings
78y, 188cm, 87kg, MHR 155. Last 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

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Carl Watts
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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by Carl Watts » May 3rd, 2019, 4:28 am

heartygrain wrote:
May 2nd, 2019, 7:04 pm
Ok, I thought we were on to something with the 2 out of 3 magnets. I took off the flywheel and I see the ring on the flywheel. There are two sensor things on the white plastic control unit, I thought maybe there should be one in the middle. Can't seem to figure out how to post a photo right now.
No thats the white plastic/yellow tape of the two pickup coils. You have the later version of pickup that provides more power to supply to the monitor while rowing. The early version has a single coil and is not as good. That is all normal, you will not have a problem there.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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Anth_F
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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by Anth_F » May 3rd, 2019, 9:24 am

I'd just send it back to C2 for a replacement.

Why should you need to faff about trying to sort out the brand new machine you just purchased lol.
41yo male 5'10 78kg (Rowing since june 9th 2016) PB's 5k 19:22

My goals are simply to keep fit/get fitter and continue to enjoy rowing on the C2 :)

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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by Slidewinder » May 3rd, 2019, 10:46 am

I agree that the O.P. is complaining of differences in readouts of a magnitude that can't be just a matter of perception. There must be one or more real physical or electronic differences between the machines. I also concede that the differences reported are too great to be solely attributable to differences in elastic cord strength between the machines. Nevertheless, if there are two or more causes, elastic cord strength could be one of them. It is easy to find out.

May I suggest, heartygrain (O.P.), that you obtain an accurate digital fish weighing scale, attach it to the handle of your new machine, pull the handle out halfway, and measure the return force of the elastic cord. Do the same with the machine at the gym. Then report back to us. I am sure no one here will object to this, or will object to having the results of your measurements posted here.

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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by heartygrain » May 3rd, 2019, 11:46 am

Thanks all. Maybe this is in my head if there is nothing really obvious to check for and I am not really working at the same level. I will try a 500m all out row on both w/heart monitor and see how it compares.

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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by johnlvs2run » May 3rd, 2019, 12:19 pm

I would do several reps of 7 to 10 strokes to max on each machine, and test yourself with some 100s.
heartygrain wrote:
May 2nd, 2019, 10:14 am
I checked the PM5 and says it's setup for model D/E.
Check the gym machines to see how they're set up too.
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skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 88.2 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by Carl Watts » May 3rd, 2019, 5:13 pm

There are also a few psychological differences between training at home and training at the gym.

You simply need to get a heartrate monitor and do some long steady state rows like 30 minutes as a set pace and spm and compare the results between rowers.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
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http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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jackarabit
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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by jackarabit » May 18th, 2019, 9:25 am

heartygrain wrote:
May 3rd, 2019, 11:46 am
Thanks all. Maybe this is in my head if there is nothing really obvious to check for and I am not really working at the same level. I will try a 500m all out row on both w/heart monitor and see how it compares.
:?:
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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johnlvs2run
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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by johnlvs2run » May 18th, 2019, 11:00 am

heartygrain wrote:
May 3rd, 2019, 11:46 am
I will try a 500m all out row on both w/heart monitor and see how it compares.
Heart rate varies greatly and won't be a good comparison.

Just do a few all out 100 meter sprints on each machine and then compare your results.
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 88.2 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
my training log

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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by Ombrax » May 18th, 2019, 8:45 pm

johnlvs2run wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 11:00 am
Heart rate varies greatly and won't be a good comparison.
For me there's enough of a difference in power required at 2:30 vs 2:10 that over, say, 2k, my avg (or max) heart rate would be a reliable way to distinguish between the two.

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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by Carl Watts » May 19th, 2019, 2:30 am

johnlvs2run wrote:
May 18th, 2019, 11:00 am
heartygrain wrote:
May 3rd, 2019, 11:46 am
I will try a 500m all out row on both w/heart monitor and see how it compares.
Heart rate varies greatly and won't be a good comparison.

Just do a few all out 100 meter sprints on each machine and then compare your results.
Not correct.

A 100m is a bad example. Try a 30 minute steady state, same pace, same rating on a different day of similar temperature and humidity and your HR will be within a beat or two of one another when you look at the average heart rates..

You cannot do consecutive 100M rows or consecutive 30min rows, your average HR is always higher on the second, third and fourth row.

The same row on a different day will be very close. I can tell you what my average HR will be for a given pace and rating on the 30min before it even starts. if there is any drift it will be upwards. Your HR is slightly lower Monday after recovery then it is Friday after consecutive daily rows. Very predictable if your doing the same thing week after week. The results should be within a couple of BPM average.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

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jackarabit
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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by jackarabit » May 19th, 2019, 10:15 am

I intended the lonely question mark icon as shorthand for my curiosity why no additional reports of tests either supporting or contradicting OP’s initial assertion of gross differences in measurement of his performance by one new and two or three used machines. My best guess is he has discovered the bias in his assumptions and the subjectivity of his initial observations and abandoned experimentation.
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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by johnlvs2run » May 19th, 2019, 10:48 am

Carl, anyone except you can do consecutive 100m rows.
Seriously, it's not that hard to do, and heart rate makes absolutely no difference.
For example: 6x 100 meter sprints with 2 minute rests would give you a great idea of any machine differences.

However, do 30' repeats with heart rate if you want.
I suggest you do at least 10 of them to make sure your heart rate is stable.
Then repeat on all the other machines, and make sure you do them all the same day so the conditions don't vary.
73 5'8 155
age 70+ world record pace per weight percentages
skierg: 100m 87.4 / 500m 86.2 / 1k 85.9 / 2k 88.2 / 5k 87.6 / 10k 89.4 / 60' 92.0 / 21k 93.6
my training log

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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by madrower99 » June 8th, 2019, 4:23 pm

I tryed concept2 both in gym and at the rowing club.I did 3x20 min series. The average speed was 2:25min/500m(20/22 strokes/min) at the gym and at the rowing center. The C2 are at least couple of years old at least. I remember back in the 90' on the old machin it was easy to reach speed about 2:00min/500m at a pace 20/22 strokes per min. I don't accept that is a matter of dirt/dust or even a monitor problem.

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Re: new rower, much slower 500m split than gym rowers

Post by dave367 » June 9th, 2019, 5:10 pm

I've had issues with more than one gym erg where the exit screen has become dusty/dirty/"linty" on the inside. It then isn't cleaned because it looks OK to the gym maintenance crew--on the outside. This debris partially impedes the outflow and mimics a looser tension. In other words, your home erg is probably OK, the gym's are too loose. Ask them to pull the cover while you watch (otherwise they may tell you it's been cleaned and I am leading you astray. :-)

Don't get me wrong, this probably isn't the gym's fault. Most use an outside service for their equipment maintenance and I bet very few are experts at partial disassembly and cleaning of C2 ergs.

Dave

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