Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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Ombrax
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by Ombrax » July 22nd, 2019, 2:12 am

MartinSH4321 wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 1:41 am
For most people here a 2k+5 pace means a faster pace than 5k pace and so they won't be able to train longer then 10-15min (or do intervals).
Agreed, and as I said, most of my workouts aren't very long (I want to have something left to lift weights). If I'm doing a single piece, the longest I go is typically 5k. Anything longer than that for total distance, I'm breaking it into shorter intervals. I also commonly do 2 x 2k and 2 x 2.5k workouts.

All this "max effort" stuff is really a separate issue from my basic question, which was whether or not folks focus on the PM.

The only reason I mentioned the magnitude of effort is to emphasize that I'm asking about harder efforts. I assume that for relatively easy efforts it's much easier to maintain a given pace (or a bit faster) without having the PM (or the electronic pace boat) to keep pushing as you row.

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hjs
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by hjs » July 22nd, 2019, 3:06 am

Ombrax wrote:
July 21st, 2019, 6:26 pm
hjs wrote:
July 21st, 2019, 4:10 am
If so, then you are not going at 2k plus 5. That reference being is used for a real max effort. Absolute pace does not matter so much. A max effort is a max effort, nomatter what pace.
Of course by definition neither a 2k pace, nor a 2k + 5 pace can be a max effort. Clearly 2k+5 is slower than 2k, so that's not max. A 2k effort (at least for me) can't be a max effort either, because I can't sustain my true "give it all you got" max effort for that long.

As far as whether or not I am truly rowing at 2k+5, since I know approximately what my best 2k effort would be right now (last time I did a test was over six months ago) I have a pretty good feel for what my 2k + 5 pace would be.
Like the others said. A max effort clearly is a max effort for that given distance. So a max 2k, is the fastest you can. If you never tested a 2k you can,t use the frase 2k plus... cause you don,t know. But you did test so you do.
So 2k plus 5 certainly can be max, but simply over a longer timeframe. And since rowing is about going over a certain distance, doing a max effort means going as fast as you can.
A low pull is used for max effort over 1 stroke.
For shorter intervals 2k plus 5 is very doable btw and if you combine it with other stuff can,t see a reason why you should not.

Strange discussion this becomes, looks we talk about things we both clearly know :D Re the looking, I bet 95% plus if the people look at the pm, its simply there.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by MPx » July 22nd, 2019, 3:54 am

I'm one of the OCD watchers of the PM. Normally concentrating on pace to try to do the same each stroke at target. Sometimes concentrate on SPM for an spm limited piece. Sometimes on predicted finish to hit a specific number. Sometimes on avg pace to get the required result. At moderate pace I can usefully watch more than one and adjust as necessary, but have noticed that once I'm nearer my physical limits such cerebral capacity is severely limited and I can only assimilate the info from one source and not simultaneously keep eg Pace, spm, and projected finish all on track at the same time - unless it just happens naturally.
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Ombrax
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by Ombrax » July 22nd, 2019, 4:27 am

To give you some insight into my motivation, I asked because I find it challenging psychologically to be constantly tracking the pace, so it turns out that rowing is both a mental effort to push your body to "stay on pace" with every single stroke, after stroke, after stroke, and a physical challenge, because as we all know, rowing strenuously at the upper end of your HRR is hard.

I was wondering if some folks would say that they can "row by feel" pretty much based on the messages they're getting from their body and so they know within +/- a few seconds what their pace is without looking at the PM, or if others would say that they "just do what they feel like doing" and row hard some days and row easy others, without even bothering with the pace. If someone is goal-oriented then it seems unlikely that they would not keep track of the pace.

Thanks for your feedback.

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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by MartinSH4321 » July 22nd, 2019, 5:39 am

I can't row without looking at the PM. At SS sessions I always have a plan what watts and SPM I want to do, I always get too fast when distracted for some time. For fast sessions it's even worse, the pace can be way to fast or slow without looking at the PM.
I don't find it challenging psychologically to be constantly tracking the pace and SPM, it gives me something to focus on.
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg (6ft1/220lb)
LP: 1:09, 100m: 14,5, 1': 384m, 500m: 1:21,4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 18:10, 30': 8.059m, 10k: 37:41,
60': 15.661m, HM: 1:25:40
rowing since 2018-06, 3mm in Nov19

Tim huges
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by Tim huges » July 22nd, 2019, 8:03 am

I always stare at the monitor, but ive always put that down to lack of experience. Not knowing exactly how any given pace/rate feels, the only way i can know is to look at the PM. The most common workout i do is 15k r22, for that i would be fairly confident in holding that pace without the help of the monitor...i do like to countdown the distance though. I'll occasionaly glance at whats going on around me in the gym...im often stared at by others. Im one of the only people in my gym that spends longer than 5min on the erg and at a decent pace with good form. Often guys use an erg next to me when the other 9 are free...doesnt matter to me, competition is a great motivation to push harder...i do find myself looking at their monitors.

I have wondered how well i could row a 2kTT without the monitor. Does it actually speed us up or slow us down when rowing an all out best effort. When we see a 1:33split do we think, jeez i cant hold this for long or would not knowing make us row harder for longer. It could be argued that the monitor could sway us either way. I would like to try it out although it would take another person to tell me i had reached 2k.
34yrs 6ft 250lbs England
Started Jan 2019
500m 1:31.6
2k 6:41.0
10k 37:34
HM 1:28:58

KEEP CALM AND 30R20

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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by MartinSH4321 » July 22nd, 2019, 8:16 am

Tim huges wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:03 am
... I would like to try it out although it would take another person to tell me i had reached 2k.
You can hide all infos on your PM except the meters remaining by some sticky notes or so, I believe I've read here in the forum that some guys do this from time to time. Myself, I won't do this, I would most likely start way too fast and slowly die in pain :D
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg (6ft1/220lb)
LP: 1:09, 100m: 14,5, 1': 384m, 500m: 1:21,4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 18:10, 30': 8.059m, 10k: 37:41,
60': 15.661m, HM: 1:25:40
rowing since 2018-06, 3mm in Nov19

Tim huges
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by Tim huges » July 22nd, 2019, 8:30 am

MartinSH4321 wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:16 am
Tim huges wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:03 am
You can hide all infos on your PM except the meters remaining by some sticky notes or so, I believe I've read here in the forum that some guys do this from time to time. Myself, I won't do this, I would most likely start way too fast and slowly die in pain :D
Hadn't thought about covering the PM with tape or sticky notes. Im pretty sure id mess it up too and id be annoyed it would be a waste of a 2k pb attempt...takes alot out of me to race a 2k. Common sense tells me it wouldnt work but you never know!
34yrs 6ft 250lbs England
Started Jan 2019
500m 1:31.6
2k 6:41.0
10k 37:34
HM 1:28:58

KEEP CALM AND 30R20

MartinSH4321
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by MartinSH4321 » July 22nd, 2019, 8:44 am

Tim huges wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:30 am
MartinSH4321 wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:16 am
Tim huges wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 8:03 am
You can hide all infos on your PM except the meters remaining by some sticky notes or so, I believe I've read here in the forum that some guys do this from time to time. Myself, I won't do this, I would most likely start way too fast and slowly die in pain :D
Hadn't thought about covering the PM with tape or sticky notes. Im pretty sure id mess it up too and id be annoyed it would be a waste of a 2k pb attempt...takes alot out of me to race a 2k. Common sense tells me it wouldnt work but you never know!
I think so too, a 2k TT is really hard both mentally and physically, even fear and malaise before the start, so I won't risk messing it up. Maybe it works for short distances like 1min or 500m. For 100m for sure, for this distance I don't check the PM, just 15 strokes to be sure I've done enough, normally 13-14 strokes are sufficient.
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg (6ft1/220lb)
LP: 1:09, 100m: 14,5, 1': 384m, 500m: 1:21,4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 18:10, 30': 8.059m, 10k: 37:41,
60': 15.661m, HM: 1:25:40
rowing since 2018-06, 3mm in Nov19

KeithT
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by KeithT » July 22nd, 2019, 8:46 am

I watch the monitor most of the time especially during intervals or TTs - to the point I can drive myself crazy with it. However, one of my "distraction" tricks on longer rows is to look away for a certain number of strokes if I am in a rythm and I find I keep the pace and usually go faster.
51 yo, 6'3" 207#
PBs (all since turning 50):
1 min - 373m, 500m - 1:21.9, 1K - 2:59.8, 4 min - 1265m, 2K - 6:29.9, 5K - 17:27, 30 min - 8277m, 10K - 36:30, 60 min - 16036, HM - 1:20:22

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Anth_F
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by Anth_F » July 22nd, 2019, 12:45 pm

MartinSH4321 wrote:
July 22nd, 2019, 5:39 am

I don't find it challenging psychologically to be constantly tracking the pace and SPM, it gives me something to focus on.
Yep same here!

Mostly i focus on having a consistent pace each stroke and will generally have a quick glance of the SPM of each stroke after the pace reading of the stroke. The PM i find gives superb feedback too on the fine margins that come with easing off the gas ever so slightly to getting back on it... and knowing that even though i might be r22 in the readings, i know that really i'm r21.5 or bit less, and the PM also knows this and will tally it up in the end average results of the session.
42yo male 5'10 78kg (Rowing since june 9th 2016) PB's 5k 19:22 30min 7518m

My goals are simply to keep fit/get fitter and continue to enjoy rowing on the C2 :)

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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by Boomer » August 9th, 2019, 6:51 pm

I either watch the PM avidly counting down strokes remaining from the hundreds or working how many meters I need to have rowed by a certain time.
If I don’t look at the PM I row with my eyes shut and concentrate fully on my breathing or stroke which makes me look weird if I’m in a public gym.

If I don’t watch the PM and I don’t focus on stoke or breathing my mind wanders and my splits drop by a couple of seconds. Shame because 10k’s can be really boring and thinking about something else would make them much better.
48yrs, 90kg, 6’3”
Rowing, the only solitary exercise I seem to like.

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Ombrax
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by Ombrax » August 9th, 2019, 9:51 pm

Boomer wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 6:51 pm
If I don’t look at the PM I row with my eyes shut and concentrate fully on my breathing or stroke
A while back I noticed that I was closing my eyes and lowering my head at the very end of the recovery, right before the catch. It took a little while, but I was able to break the habit.

Just for grins tonight in my warm up I'll see how it feels to do 25 strokes or so with my eyes closed. Usually I shoot for a pace of 2:30 - I'll peek a few times to see how close I am to that.

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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by jackarabit » August 9th, 2019, 11:50 pm

Watching the PM is similar to flying on instruments or using the speedometer to lighten that lead foot—reliance on a feedback loop. The inner cox’n gets a better workout OTW.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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hjs
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Re: Focusing on the PM and your pace vs not watching and/or letting your mind wander

Post by hjs » August 10th, 2019, 3:50 am

jackarabit wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 11:50 pm
Watching the PM is similar to flying on instruments or using the speedometer to lighten that lead foot—reliance on a feedback loop. The inner cox’n gets a better workout OTW.
Indeed Jack, would be nice to have a screen where you could put everything out what you wanted, does not excist.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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