Struggling with fat, what am I doing wrong?

[hjs]

Sorry to hijack the thread - I’m new so don’t know if that’s allowed on here.
What stroke rate for UT2? There is so much conflicting advice about everything. I was following the Peter Plan, where he says the long slow stuff 8k-13k should be done at 22-25 spm. Elsewhere I read that UT2 should be at 18-20 spm.
Does it matter as long as your HR stays below 70%%?

What matters most is Hf, Pete simply did not do much low rate work. Low rate is the most important for otw rowers, there you simply can,t use a higher strokerate and use a good technique. On the erg that matters less.

[Tony Cook]

Sorry to hijack the thread - I’m new so don’t know if that’s allowed on here.
What stroke rate for UT2? There is so much conflicting advice about everything. I was following the Peter Plan, where he says the long slow stuff 8k-13k should be done at 22-25 spm. Elsewhere I read that UT2 should be at 18-20 spm.
Does it matter as long as your HR stays below 70%%?

It's generally accepted 18-22 for UT2 as any higher and you're embedding a weak stroke, which will not help when you rate up. Personally I find 22-26 a bit of a dead space unless you use them for a specific power / pace.

The 70% HR is ideal for building your aerobic base and losing weight etc so that is your primary goal, but getting used to different strokes is important too, especially if you instinctively avoid a stroke rate, albeit this can be every other stroke rate eg 18/20/22 etc

Thanks for the reply. I know you said ‘personally’ you find 22-26 a dead space. Is stroke rate just a personal thing then? I.e we all find our own cadence. Is it that Peter of The Peter Plan’s favoured rate for the long pieces 22-25 rather than there is a health/improvement benefit from that rate?

[Tony Cook]

Sorry to hijack the thread - I’m new so don’t know if that’s allowed on here.
What stroke rate for UT2? There is so much conflicting advice about everything. I was following the Peter Plan, where he says the long slow stuff 8k-13k should be done at 22-25 spm. Elsewhere I read that UT2 should be at 18-20 spm.
Does it matter as long as your HR stays below 70%%?

What matters most is Hf, Pete simply did not do much low rate work. Low rate is the most important for otw rowers, there you simply can,t use a higher strokerate and use a good technique. On the erg that matters less.

Thanks for the reply. What is Hf? I’ve seen it a few times and initially thought it meant Heart failure, but I can’t see that it can be. Various dictionaries give me Hafnium, Hageman factor, even Harrison Ford!

[mict450]

Curious, please keep us informed on your progress. I'd be interested in seeing how you incorporate the good advice you've received & turn it into a system to help you lose the fat that you desire & more importantly, to keep it off. Although fat loss is "relatively easier", (yeah, right! ) where most of us fail is maintaining that loss. Good luck.

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks for the reply. I know you said ‘personally’ you find 22-26 a dead space. Is stroke rate just a personal thing then? I.e we all find our own cadence. Is it that Peter of The Peter Plan’s favoured rate for the long pieces 22-25 rather than there is a health/improvement benefit from that rate?

Yes mate, it is. I'm naturally more comfortable at 28/30 but I know a lot of people who can't rate over 25 for longer distances and feel natural, and fast, at 18/20.

I also find breathing sequence becomes an issue with different rates. As it's an automated response, you instinctively breath at certain stages with the stroke and, ime, this is a lot easier at 18-22 and 28-30 but there's no reason why you shouldn't row at 22-25 if that feels right to you.

Making things as comfortable, and natural, as possible is a big help in settling into the art of rowing. So don't get too caught up into the intricacies of it all as there is quite often a subjective element to it and what works for others might not work for you.

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks for the reply. What is Hf? I’ve seen it a few times and initially thought it meant Heart failure, but I can’t see that it can be. Various dictionaries give me Hafnium, Hageman factor, even Harrison Ford!

Hahahaha, I believe Henry says HF to refer to Heart Fluctuation but it's defo referring to heart rate...and probably not Harrison Ford.

[hjs]

Thanks for the reply. What is Hf? I’ve seen it a few times and initially thought it meant Heart failure, but I can’t see that it can be. Various dictionaries give me Hafnium, Hageman factor, even Harrison Ford!

Hahahaha, I believe Henry says HF to refer to Heart Fluctuation but it's defo referring to heart rate...and probably not Harrison Ford.

Sorry, Heart frequency. Or Heart Rate.

[jackarabit]

...and probably not Harrison Ford.

I always thought Hf proberly stood for Heart function..

Couldn’t resist, Henry. It was like your TM [trademark]. I never did figure out why you didn’t use prolly like the rest of us? Excepting Stu.

Yep, rate is the multiplier. Need some grunt in the stroke of course so Stu’s 28 rate ain’t just bunny-humpin the rail.

Optimum Fatburn? Gotta be HR righteously capped @ .7xHRR +RHR or know your way around perceived exertion.

[Dangerscouse]

...and probably not Harrison Ford.

I always thought Hf proberly stood for Heart function..

Couldn’t resist, Henry. It was like your TM [trademark]. I never did figure out why you didn’t use prolly like the rest of us, excepting Stu.

Yep, rate is the multiplier. Need some grunt in the stroke of course so Stu’s 28 rate ain’t just bunny-humpin the rail.

Hahahahahahaha, proberly!! I forgot about that!!

[mict450]

......bunny-humpin the rail.

Oh my!! That phrase is priceless!!

[Tony Cook]

...and probably not Harrison Ford.

Optimum Fatburn? Gotta be HR righteously capped @ .7xHRR +RHR or know your way around perceived exertion.

I’ve overthought this one for years. I have a table with various MHR calculations - Fairburn, Gellish, Tanaka, various fitness sites and my own measured one. Makes my MHR anywhere from 162 to 175.
Then RHR is described as either when you wake up (50) or what it is when sat down resting more than three hours after exercise (54/55).
So my .7xHRR +RHR is anything between 128 and 139.
I tend to do my steady state at 130, so it sometime drifts up but always capped at 135. Potentially though I am never in UT2 / Fat Burning zone as I am always over 128bpm, which may be my 70% cap.
Confusing innit?

[Allan Olesen]

Couldn’t resist, Henry. It was like your TM [trademark].

And here I thought that Henry,s lowered apostrophe was his trademark.

[jackarabit]

If optimum fatburn is understood as total calories sourced from fat, then duration of effort is paramount. HIT efforts burn some fat, perhaps at a higher rate per minute than LIT but LI enables greater duration of effort which in turn metabolizes ‘significant’ amounts of body fat in company with daily shortfall in caloric uptake. I doubt a couple ticks over the line at the end of a tediously noncompetitive, Maffatonish chore is going to spoil the reduction and maintenance of self to an acceptable fit in last year’s suit coat. And zoning schemas may well create problems which RPE easily resolves.

[jamesg]

Confusing innit?

And we're also supposed to check our AT level every so often, as it isn't fixed. Could be 95% of HRR if fit. So likely we could move the other levels too.

Someone told me KISS, so I just use Watts or Rating as control and go through the whole HR range to MHR every time. I call it polarization.

[jackarabit]

Confusing innit?

And we're also supposed to check our AT level every so often, as it isn't fixed. Could be 95% of HRR if fit. So likely we could move the other levels too.

Someone told me KISS, so I just use Watts or Rating as control and go through the whole HR range to MHR every time. I call it polarization.

Ah, the waypoint approach. Greg Smith always said zones were for passing thru not setting up camp.