How do times on water convert to indoor?

No, ergs don't yet float, but some of us do, and here's where you get to discuss that other form of rowing.
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Fathoms77
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How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by Fathoms77 » June 17th, 2020, 6:18 pm

Maybe this isn't the best place to put it, but I've always wondered:

How do times on water compare to indoor rowing times on the Concept 2?

For example, if I row a certain time indoor, can I expect that number to be higher or lower on the water? And if so, is it a significant difference?

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Citroen
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Re: How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by Citroen » June 18th, 2020, 5:57 am

They whole design idea for the Concept2 ergo was to get a grounded machine that could be used during the winter months when the river wasn't usable. So they aimed to get the times on the performance monitor to match what you'd get in a coxless four.

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Re: How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by hjs » June 18th, 2020, 10:05 am

Fathoms77 wrote:
June 17th, 2020, 6:18 pm
Maybe this isn't the best place to put it, but I've always wondered:

How do times on water compare to indoor rowing times on the Concept 2?

For example, if I row a certain time indoor, can I expect that number to be higher or lower on the water? And if so, is it a significant difference?
Two important things. Otw you need good technique and fitness, on the erg, fitness alone is enough. So a fast otw rower will be also good otw. The other way around much less so.

Second, weight, the erg does not care about our weight, a boat certainly does, the more weight, the deeper the boat and the more drag. So erg scores should be adjusted for weight in a way.

Fathoms77
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Re: How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by Fathoms77 » June 18th, 2020, 10:34 am

I don't weight a lot; I'm 6'3, 175lbs, so I don't think my drag would be too bad. But I know lightweight rowers who are shorter would drag even less.

So basically, the times I see on the Concept 2 rower would be mostly accurate compared to if I was in the water...?

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Re: How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by jamesg » June 18th, 2020, 1:19 pm

Depends on the type of boat. 8+ or 4x would be faster, 1x and 2- slower.
Erg times are calculated from power and were set to be roughly what the same crew can do in a 4-.
08-1940, 183cm, 87kg. Last seen MHR 162, in 2k (2020-05-16) 8.47.5@24

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Re: How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by Fathoms77 » June 18th, 2020, 1:36 pm

jamesg wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 1:19 pm
Depends on the type of boat. 8+ or 4x would be faster, 1x and 2- slower.
Erg times are calculated from power and were set to be roughly what the same crew can do in a 4-.
So the times shown on the rower reflect what a 4-man crew would do...? That seems weird as a rower can only hold one person...

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Re: How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by Cyclist2 » June 18th, 2020, 9:52 pm

It's not about the actual boat, but the feel of the 4x (coxless quad) on smooth water. Comparing actual times is hard because of the different boats, even within the same class, water conditions, etc. I assume in the beginning, they experimented with the monitor, having experienced rowers (the Driessigacker brothers and friends) row the erg and provide input on the feel, then they'd adjust the monitor parameters until they got the feel where they wanted. (Just speculation, being how I'd do it. I don't know the actual method they used).

In my own case, I row the erg at a a sustainable aerobic pace of about 2:00/500m. In my Maas Aero on the water, the same effort yields about a 2:45/500 pace. In a racing shell it is about 2:30/500. Elite single scullers can row OTW at or below 2:00/500 (but their erg times are down around 1:40 or less). As already mentioned, there is a lot more going on in a boat.
Mark Underwood. Rower first, cyclist too.

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Re: How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by Fathoms77 » June 19th, 2020, 12:05 am

Cyclist2 wrote:
June 18th, 2020, 9:52 pm
It's not about the actual boat, but the feel of the 4x (coxless quad) on smooth water. Comparing actual times is hard because of the different boats, even within the same class, water conditions, etc. I assume in the beginning, they experimented with the monitor, having experienced rowers (the Driessigacker brothers and friends) row the erg and provide input on the feel, then they'd adjust the monitor parameters until they got the feel where they wanted. (Just speculation, being how I'd do it. I don't know the actual method they used).

In my own case, I row the erg at a a sustainable aerobic pace of about 2:00/500m. In my Maas Aero on the water, the same effort yields about a 2:45/500 pace. In a racing shell it is about 2:30/500. Elite single scullers can row OTW at or below 2:00/500 (but their erg times are down around 1:40 or less). As already mentioned, there is a lot more going on in a boat.
I've been able to sustain 2:00/500M for 14,500 meters in the past (that's about 58:30). I'd like to see how that translates in a boat...

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Re: How do times on water convert to indoor?

Post by jamesg » June 19th, 2020, 12:27 am

Suggest you try it. At age 65 in a 1x I used to do about 10 km an hour on a 5k lake, with innumerable stops and navigation but little wind.

The erg measures Watts; speeds are calculated from this using an arbitrary constant.
08-1940, 183cm, 87kg. Last seen MHR 162, in 2k (2020-05-16) 8.47.5@24

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