Confused Beginner - pace, spm, steady state and heart rate

[TheZoRT]

Hi everyone,

First thing's first - Male, 34, 1.84m, 83kg. No substantial athletic background, but used to train in a gym for general fitness (mostly weights, no cardio at all). Goal is to have fun, build some aerobic capacity and maybe try some "rowing classics" like a 1/2/5/10k in the future (for fun).

I've discovered the C2 rower a few weeks ago, started nice and easy trying to work on technique (found some videos on YouTube) and built distance gradually. For reference, started with about 1000m workout @2:55/500 pace, and after a few weeks got to a comfortable 5k@2:42/500 three times a week.

After a couple of weeks doing these 5k's three times a week, I found the Pete's Plan for beginners, and am on my third week now. Until now I've done all 5 workouts per week, and Yesterday did the 6k@2:28/500 (I felt it was Steady State). Last night I found this great forum, and started reading about the importance of SPM, which I pretty much disregarded until now. I also understood I might need to work on my back extension at the end of the drive (until now I made an extension, but didn't really lean back too much)

Going back to my logbook (I keep a detailed training log for a few years), I found out my "Steady State" rows were at about 22-24 spm. Today, I tried to do a technical workout, and go slower. I was able to get down to 16-17 spm, but as my strokes were more powerful I got gassed really quick, my HR went up fast (I don't monitor it, but it was HIGH) and only managed to do 3x500m (with 2:00 rest).

So basically I'm very confused now - Did I do it all wrong from the beginning? did I do something wrong today?
What do you think I should do moving forward - start all over?

Unfortunately I don't have access to a rowing coach...

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

[mromero680]

I was in the same boat so to speak. Never paid too much attention to stroke rate and just did what felt most comfortable which was 23/24 spm. If I was going for a better time I increased the stroke rate. Eventually I started doing low spm workouts and it made a difference for a couple reasons. One, low spm really allows you, and forces you, to use better form. Two, low spm forces you to apply more power to the stroke (unless you really slow down) and this pays off in faster times at higher spm. I now make sure I'm doing some work at low spm (18 or so) and some higher spm (28-30) so I feel more comfortable at both.

[ampire]

You mentioned keeping a training log. One thing that might interest you if you aren't using it already is you can use an app on your phone called Erg Data, it can link up to your rower's monitor and record your workout. This can be synced with C2's logbook and it will store your historical workout data.

For most people, steady state generally is done as UT2 at R18-20 and UT1 at 20-22. The reason to do lower ratings is to create more force. Adapting to rowing at lower ratings takes time, your heart rate will be higher until you get used to it. You can gain the fitness you need to row faster, just give your body adequate training stimulus, nutrition, and rest you need and over time you will become faster.

[mitchel674]

Welcome to the forum!

You're asking great questions. Kudos to you for trying to understand these issues early on in your rowing. I wasted my first time through the BPP by rating too high on many of the longer pieces. You will be doing yourself a favor by doing those increasingly longer rows at 20-22spm while focusing on your form and technique which each drive.

Great that you've found some good instructional videos. Consider posting a video of yourself rowing here for the more experienced members to critique and offer some constructive advice. This could make a huge difference.

[rascott]

hi...agree with all the above. The basic principle is to get as good as you can technique wise at a nice steady "training rate" - this for me is around 20. I find 18 a bit too laborious. If you can get your splits down as far as possible by being powerful and efficient at 20 rate then all you need to do is rate higher , doing the same thing, to go faster. (albeit technique does start suffering at the very high rates). Hope this makes sense.

Rating high also takes practice. As well as the BPP I cam also recommend Eric Murray's sessions - you'll learn a lot about technique. These are available on YouTube on the kiwi pair and asensei channels.

Finally I would caution against leaning back too far - this is the weakest part of your stroke and you won't gain much apart from a strained lower back which will take you off the rower for weeks. I speak from experience. C2 advise thinking of your torso moving from 11 to 1 on a clock face and this for me is about right.

[Dangerscouse]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm not surprised at all that your HR was a lot higher. When you're still a newbie, and only used to rowing at circa r23, there is a big difference when you try to lower it down to r16/17, as there will be when you try and increase it to r28+. I'd also not recommend going lower than r18 as it increases the risk of injury and doesn't demonstrably add any benefits.

Break it down into bite sized chunks ie lower it by one spm every 7-10 days, so you can acclimatise to the difference. In addition to needing more power per stroke to maintain the same pace, your breathing sequence is subtly different for lower & higher rates too. I broadly think there are three breathing zones 18-22; 23-28; 28+.

Finally, it's useful to think of pace and stroke rates as intrinsically linked, for most sessions (30r20 being a good example of an exception to the rule). If I was you, I'd lower my pace by circa two seconds per one spm to reflect the increase in energy requirements, so, if 2:28 was your 6k pace at r24, I'd aim for 2:40 pace at r18. Don't be afraid to increase / decrease the pace if this doesn't work, as it's only a rough guide.

Trying to match the pace at a lower stroke rate is something that will be an option when you're more experienced, but it's far too taxing atm. Building a solid base of fitness is a slow but very important part of the process.

[Ombrax]

I found out my "Steady State" rows were at about 22-24 spm. Today, I tried to do a technical workout, and go slower. I was able to get down to 16-17 spm, but as my strokes were more powerful I got gassed really quick, my HR went up fast (I don't monitor it, but it was HIGH) and only managed to do 3x500m (with 2:00 rest).

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

Bottom line, my advice would be to not mess with such a slow stroke rate. 16-17spm is very low, and you'll have to exert a lot more force to maintain the same pace, which will likely be bad for you, especially your back, but just about everywhere.

20-24 spm is fine for most "regular" training. If you're racing, going for a PB, or If you're sprinting at the end of a workout, then you'll be much higher than that to max out your pace, but for basic training low 20's is just right.

[lindsayh]

Bottom line, my advice would be to not mess with such a slow stroke rate. 16-17spm is very low, and you'll have to exert a lot more force to maintain the same pace, which will likely be bad for you, especially your back, but just about everywhere.
20-24 spm is fine for most "regular" training. If you're racing, going for a PB, or If you're sprinting at the end of a workout, then you'll be much higher than that to max out your pace, but for basic training low 20's is just right.

I agree under sr20 adds very little to training. Just stick under 25 for regular steady but if you are wanting to race or TT then you will need to learn to rate up as sr30 is where the fast stuff starts.

[jamesg]

You can see it all here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0dzPz0tD5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf84O5cTWY4

On the erg it helps if you keep your feet and the drag factor both low: the idea is to use the legs fast and hard, but with plenty of recovery time between strokes. Your legs are strong already, so will soon get you fit if put to use.

[hjs]

Hi everyone,

First thing's first - Male, 34, 1.84m, 83kg. No substantial athletic background, but used to train in a gym for general fitness (mostly weights, no cardio at all). Goal is to have fun, build some aerobic capacity and maybe try some "rowing classics" like a 1/2/5/10k in the future (for fun).

I've discovered the C2 rower a few weeks ago, started nice and easy trying to work on technique (found some videos on YouTube) and built distance gradually. For reference, started with about 1000m workout @2:55/500 pace, and after a few weeks got to a comfortable 5k@2:42/500 three times a week.

After a couple of weeks doing these 5k's three times a week, I found the Pete's Plan for beginners, and am on my third week now. Until now I've done all 5 workouts per week, and Yesterday did the 6k@2:28/500 (I felt it was Steady State). Last night I found this great forum, and started reading about the importance of SPM, which I pretty much disregarded until now. I also understood I might need to work on my back extension at the end of the drive (until now I made an extension, but didn't really lean back too much)

Going back to my logbook (I keep a detailed training log for a few years), I found out my "Steady State" rows were at about 22-24 spm. Today, I tried to do a technical workout, and go slower. I was able to get down to 16-17 spm, but as my strokes were more powerful I got gassed really quick, my HR went up fast (I don't monitor it, but it was HIGH) and only managed to do 3x500m (with 2:00 rest).

So basically I'm very confused now - Did I do it all wrong from the beginning? did I do something wrong today?
What do you think I should do moving forward - start all over?

Unfortunately I don't have access to a rowing coach...

Any advice would be very much appreciated!

You current number one problem is fitness. For a guy your age and build you are, to put it mildly, below average. Your first goal should be to get a good bit faster. Which should not be difficult at this point. Once you are able to do that, you should worry about that.

Low rate training is for people who are beyond the beginners stage. And in the end, mostly aimed at otw rowing. Low rate rowing is always slower and more difficult. Compare it with running, try running with leaps instead of natural steps. This is like low rowing, yes you get stronger, but doing so, will be tough and at slower speed.

[TheZoRT]

Thanks for all the great feedback and comments!

To sum it up, I'll focus on getting a solid base, staying at the rate and speed I feel comfortable for now while thinking about increasing stroke power (and lowering spm) over time.

That means (if I understand correctly) that I'll stick with Pete's beginner's plan and see how it goes in a few weeks.

Thanks again! Will be lurking around for more knowledge and would love to get more tips you guys think suit my specific situation.