How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Maintenance, accessories, operation. Anything to do with making your erg work.
wightvanman
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How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by wightvanman » October 20th, 2020, 4:26 pm

Hi. I’ve got a Model E on a Concept2 black rubber mat on a perfectly flat floor. When I row hard, the machine creeps backwards until it’s crept a good 12 inches off the mat. It didn’t happen until the last few weeks. I’m rowing a bit harder so I think it’s related to the catch and my legs extending. Can anyone suggest a reason why, and how can I stop it. Thanks.

neil262
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by neil262 » October 20th, 2020, 5:49 pm

I Don't get that problem as I row on a carpeted floor, but I have seen in videos,
people who have put weights behind the front legs, usually dumbell plates. Perhaps this could be a solution?
Neil
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Ombrax
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by Ombrax » October 20th, 2020, 8:17 pm

Does the backwards motion of the erg happen at the catch or at the end of the drive?

Dangerscouse
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by Dangerscouse » October 21st, 2020, 12:42 am

I have put pieces of cut up yoga mat under the feet, as mine started to move around despite it being on C2 mat.

I found barbell plates also moved around and didn't help, but I heard a recommendation of bags of gravel for the front of the erg too
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,461m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:44:04; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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Ombrax
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by Ombrax » October 21st, 2020, 1:11 am

I've found that non-slip tool drawer liner (see below) tends to grip better than yoga mat material. (of course there are tons of different options for each)

I got some very inexpensive stuff from Harbor Freight lying around that worked well when at one time I had my Model C on linoleum.

https://www.toolsource.com/misc-c-318/n ... 58420.html

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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by jamesg » October 21st, 2020, 1:59 am

On a slippery floor (or on slides), the machine moves away from us at the catch, and towards us during the recovery, due to the inertial forces we apply though our feet.

At high friction as on a rubber base, if there is movement you will need to adjust technique and rating to limit the cause.

But above certain levels of acceleration and the required inertial forces, the machine will move unless bolted down.
08-1940, 183cm, 84kg. Last seen MHR 155, in 2k (2020-12-03) 8.47.6@23

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Ombrax
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by Ombrax » October 21st, 2020, 2:26 am

jamesg wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 1:59 am
On a slippery floor (or on slides), the machine moves away from us at the catch, and towards us during the recovery, due to the inertial forces we apply though our feet.

At high friction as on a rubber base, if there is movement you will need to adjust technique and rating to limit the cause.
I know I sometimes sound like a broken record on this topic, but I was going to suggest that the OP try to row strapless, since that's both a sure way to limit the forces that tend to cause the erg to move "back" (fwd when talking OTW stuff) and a good check on technique.

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hjs
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by hjs » October 21st, 2020, 3:40 am

wightvanman wrote:
October 20th, 2020, 4:26 pm
Hi. I’ve got a Model E on a Concept2 black rubber mat on a perfectly flat floor. When I row hard, the machine creeps backwards until it’s crept a good 12 inches off the mat. It didn’t happen until the last few weeks. I’m rowing a bit harder so I think it’s related to the catch and my legs extending. Can anyone suggest a reason why, and how can I stop it. Thanks.
Not strange, at races ergs are taped to the floor. A 100% perfect technique should prevent slipping. But nobody has that. Put something heavy on the footrest. Or get a different mat with more friction.

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hjs
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by hjs » October 21st, 2020, 3:42 am

Ombrax wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 2:26 am
jamesg wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 1:59 am
On a slippery floor (or on slides), the machine moves away from us at the catch, and towards us during the recovery, due to the inertial forces we apply though our feet.

At high friction as on a rubber base, if there is movement you will need to adjust technique and rating to limit the cause.
I know I sometimes sound like a broken record on this topic, but I was going to suggest that the OP try to row strapless, since that's both a sure way to limit the forces that tend to cause the erg to move "back" (fwd when talking OTW stuff) and a good check on technique.
Makes no difference, with one exception, you can only move forward that way, cause you can’t pull the straps, but still push the erg forward.

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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by Allan Olesen » October 21st, 2020, 4:50 am

hjs wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 3:42 am
Makes no difference, with one exception, you can only move forward that way, cause you can’t pull the straps, but still push the erg forward.
Errh..? That one exception is actually the whole issue here. The thread starter stated that his erg is moving backwards.

I agree to the strapless proposal. The energy, which is moving the erg backwards, is wasted energy. If the same energy went into the handle, it would be recorded by the PM as actual work done.

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hjs
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by hjs » October 21st, 2020, 5:16 am

Allan Olesen wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 4:50 am
hjs wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 3:42 am
Makes no difference, with one exception, you can only move forward that way, cause you can’t pull the straps, but still push the erg forward.
Errh..? That one exception is actually the whole issue here. The thread starter stated that his erg is moving backwards.

I agree to the strapless proposal. The energy, which is moving the erg backwards, is wasted energy. If the same energy went into the handle, it would be recorded by the PM as actual work done.
Its not, with straps it can move backswards, or forwards, depending on technique. And even a third option, lifting the erg, so its starts hopping. The only way to prevent all three is fixating the erg to the floor.

Strapless will not be the solution, for multiple reasons, first, strapless, very much limits the sort of training you can do. Longer, easy sessions, fine, everything else is either difficult or impossible. You can’t rate up and you can’t sprint.
Strapless will not prevent moving forward, if the floor is a bit slippery you will move. And I don’t think that but KNOW for a fact.

I repeat, not for nothing, at races, concept2 does anker/tape the machines to the floor. Problem fixed.
Putting weight on the feet is a good solution for home.
Third option, when sprinting, not seldom People are standing on the feet.

Last, crappy, option, row very slowly, this will sure fix the problem and also prevent sweating B)

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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by wightvanman » October 21st, 2020, 9:00 am

Thanks for the input from everyone
My physicist son has a couple of theories . He thinks I’m more upright and exerting a vertical power vector on the catch.
What puzzles me is why it has started to happen in the last month or so..... or more accurately... what specific tweak of my rowing action has precipitated this change. I have been concentrating on slower stroke rate
I have watched the world rowing on YouTube where those huge athletes rip the erg to pieces and their machines don’t seem to move....or are they bolted to the floor?

Nomath
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by Nomath » October 21st, 2020, 9:10 am

As Ombrax suggested: put an anti-slip mat onder the rear legs.
Car dashboard mats are very sticky.

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Dangerscouse
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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by Dangerscouse » October 21st, 2020, 10:00 am

wightvanman wrote:
October 21st, 2020, 9:00 am
Thanks for the input from everyone
My physicist son has a couple of theories . He thinks I’m more upright and exerting a vertical power vector on the catch.
What puzzles me is why it has started to happen in the last month or so..... or more accurately... what specific tweak of my rowing action has precipitated this change. I have been concentrating on slower stroke rate
I have watched the world rowing on YouTube where those huge athletes rip the erg to pieces and their machines don’t seem to move....or are they bolted to the floor?
Mine was fine for over a year, and then all of sudden started slipping when I was doing the fastest type of sessions; I assume yours is only moving when you're really going hard?

My suspicion is that the glass cleaner I use for the rail, has eventually built up or wore down the mat. I now spray it on the cloth, close up, with no fan on and it seems to have worked.

The non-slip options above are better options than a mat. I never gave them a thought

Finally, you want more of a vertical stroke, otherwise you can come off the seat more easily as you're pulling up and out of the seat
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,461m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:44:04; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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Re: How to stop my machine migrating off the mat

Post by jamesg » October 21st, 2020, 1:08 pm

what specific tweak of my rowing action
It's hard to diagnose blind.. so what tweaks? Also, which way is backwards?

Failing a video, some data might help, such as at what rating and Watt level does slippage start to show and at what levels do you normally train?
08-1940, 183cm, 84kg. Last seen MHR 155, in 2k (2020-12-03) 8.47.6@23

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