Easy Interval Method (Verheul / Lok) into Rowing/Erging?

[iain]

It looks like these are becoming a majority of your workouts. As I understand the literature doing mainly mid-level workouts is the least effective strategy and tending to this is the major reason that amateurs fail to get the maximum benefit from their sessions.

I don't see the various options you list as similar workouts. Training at mile - 3k pace is TR and pushing to VO2 max while 10k and slower is probably below threshold, useful for building resilience but may not give the threshold improvements that will benefit beyond the peripheral improvements generated by traditional SS. I would see the benefits more in improving the enjoyment of SS sessions than the training effects (not to be underestimated, the worst training program is the one that leads to you stopping training!).

[Tobias Stoehr]

I purchased and read the book (V1.0) a while ago. There are a couple differences between running and erging which make it not as good for the erg, imho. Main difference is that the rowing stroke does not have a "reactivity" component where you need a bouncy step which can be lost in running from slow running. The key for intensity distribution is that these sessions are the easy sessions, not the intensive sessions.

[Tobias Stoehr]

P.S.: Look up Norwegian Threshold training for an approach which is more suited to rowing. Marius Bakken has posted on his website on it and also published a paper on it.

[jcross485]

It looks like these are becoming a majority of your workouts. As I understand the literature doing mainly mid-level workouts is the least effective strategy and tending to this is the major reason that amateurs fail to get the maximum benefit from their sessions.

I don't see the various options you list as similar workouts. Training at mile - 3k pace is TR and pushing to VO2 max while 10k and slower is probably below threshold, useful for building resilience but may not give the threshold improvements that will benefit beyond the peripheral improvements generated by traditional SS. I would see the benefits more in improving the enjoyment of SS sessions than the training effects (not to be underestimated, the worst training program is the one that leads to you stopping training!).

Good feedback, thank you! I don't want to speak for others but I know personally the hard VO2 max intervals are something I don't look forward to despite knowing their benefits. It probably comes down to the extended "suck". I will do hard sprints, hill sprints, etc. all day but those 2-4 min intervals are dreadful.

I purchased and read the book (V1.0) a while ago. There are a couple differences between running and erging which make it not as good for the erg, imho. Main difference is that the rowing stroke does not have a "reactivity" component where you need a bouncy step which can be lost in running from slow running. The key for intensity distribution is that these sessions are the easy sessions, not the intensive sessions.

I agree that there is no reactivity component and that is one of the main points of emphasis with respect to the Easy Interval Method; however, part of me thinks that power per stroke might be something that benefits with this on the rower which may translate to all out efforts. Would something like the traditional 30 mins, rate cap 20 work better in your opinion?

With respect to the easy vs. intensive session, based on the few that I have done thus far, I would agree that they take the place of steady state as opposed to true intensive or interval sessions.

P.S.: Look up Norwegian Threshold training for an approach which is more suited to rowing. Marius Bakken has posted on his website on it and also published a paper on it.

I will certainly read up! Funny enough, the content I watch the most on the iPad while rowing are triathlon related and with the rise of the Norwegians lately. This might give me more reason to dig in!

[jcross485]

Yesterday's planned steady session got cut short due to a work emergency so I ended up doing two 5k's at a relatively low effort to get in some meters; will end up doing ~15k tomorrow.

1st:
21:09
119 DF
167 watt average
139 HR average

2nd:
20:58
119 DF
176 watt average
143 HR average

[iain]

Sorry one other observation, it seems strange to just record the average for a session performed at 2 paces. Doesn't this incentivise pushing the "recovery" pace? I would have thought bifurcating the session and recording the recovery and more intense parts separately would be more helpful.

[jcross485]

Sorry one other observation, it seems strange to just record the average for a session performed at 2 paces. Doesn't this incentivise pushing the "recovery" pace? I would have thought bifurcating the session and recording the recovery and more intense parts separately would be more helpful.

Well noted! I've been recording the average for the session so I can compare numbers from a more traditional steady state to an Easy Interval Method session but your point is well taken.

I will say that I have stayed pretty disciplined in keeping recovery/easy paces to 2:09 - 2:10. Taking a look back, the slowest any of the recovery/easy paces has been was 2:10.1 and the fastest 2:09.2.

I will start posting the details as opposed to the general.

Thanks!

[jcross485]

An Easy Interval Method type session.

14k in total -

General Stats:
58:02 (2:04.3 / 500)
121 DF
182 watt average
152 HR average

https://imgur.com/a/amTmAfk

[Elizabeth]

What's your max HR? It feels like the stimulus with these sessions is quite different than steady state.

[jcross485]

What's your max HR? It feels like the stimulus with these sessions is quite different than steady state.

It very well could be a different stimulus; I guess I am not as in tuned with zones and stimuli as I should be. More time reading while traveling!

I hit 193 during a hard run with extended hill repeats last fall, granted it was a bit warm and humid where I did it.

I hit 191 on the C2 over the winter in a much cooler garage space during an 8 x 500m session on the last interval.

My resting heart rate is pretty consistent at 46-47 unless I do have some travel for work where the hours I’m traveling and sleeping are off.

[MPx]

I hit 191 on the C2 over the winter in a much cooler garage space during an 8 x 500m session on the last interval.

Always best to work from observed values as we are all different, but I'd suggest your true Max will be a little higher. Even on repeats, 500 is a bit short to reach a max - more likely to be reached doing a 500 sprint at the end of a hard 5-10k TT. The oft prescribed piece to generate max is based on 4 min repeats at increasing pace until failure. Not something to be taken on lightly...

[Elizabeth]

Echoing MPx, I saw HR 182 today during 5x750, but I've hit 189 at the end of a hard 5k erg culminating in an all-out 1k. I've hit 195 during a 5k road race.

Most of the work that you're describing is at a harder heart rate than I'd expect for easy work with a max HR of 191. The easy steady sessions may or may not be drifting out of easy, it's hard to tell without a good max HR, and also with looking at the average across the session as opposed to any sustained maximum. The easy interval session are definitely medium work, more likely light hard work.

I don't have a great understanding of what your overall training week looks like. To a certain extent, if you're doing pretty few training sessions per week, it really doesn't matter as much - and one of the key things is keeping things where you enjoy it and want to keep coming back. But with more volume, and not even two-a-day volume, better results often come with taking the easy stuff on the easier side, and going hard for the hard. And yeah, today my hard 5x750 at slightly sub 2k pace hurt a bit, but I was sufficiently fresh going into it where there was only about 200m where I was really questioning myself.

[Dangerscouse]

Even on repeats, 500 is a bit short to reach a max - more likely to be reached doing a 500 sprint at the end of a hard 5-10k TT.

I saw my max HR (176) at the end of my FM PB, but i didn't get over 163 on the pyramid intervals I did today, even though they felt tough.

I wonder if that was partly influenced by my fatigued CNS, so my overall power was lower than normal? Notwithstanding that I doubt it would have reached much more than a few beats more even if I was fresh.

[jcross485]

I hit 191 on the C2 over the winter in a much cooler garage space during an 8 x 500m session on the last interval.

Always best to work from observed values as we are all different, but I'd suggest your true Max will be a little higher. Even on repeats, 500 is a bit short to reach a max - more likely to be reached doing a 500 sprint at the end of a hard 5-10k TT. The oft prescribed piece to generate max is based on 4 min repeats at increasing pace until failure. Not something to be taken on lightly...

Echoing MPx, I saw HR 182 today during 5x750, but I've hit 189 at the end of a hard 5k erg culminating in an all-out 1k. I've hit 195 during a 5k road race.

Most of the work that you're describing is at a harder heart rate than I'd expect for easy work with a max HR of 191. The easy steady sessions may or may not be drifting out of easy, it's hard to tell without a good max HR, and also with looking at the average across the session as opposed to any sustained maximum. The easy interval session are definitely medium work, more likely light hard work.

I don't have a great understanding of what your overall training week looks like. To a certain extent, if you're doing pretty few training sessions per week, it really doesn't matter as much - and one of the key things is keeping things where you enjoy it and want to keep coming back. But with more volume, and not even two-a-day volume, better results often come with taking the easy stuff on the easier side, and going hard for the hard. And yeah, today my hard 5x750 at slightly sub 2k pace hurt a bit, but I was sufficiently fresh going into it where there was only about 200m where I was really questioning myself.

Even on repeats, 500 is a bit short to reach a max - more likely to be reached doing a 500 sprint at the end of a hard 5-10k TT.

I saw my max HR (176) at the end of my FM PB, but i didn't get over 163 on the pyramid intervals I did today, even though they felt tough.

I wonder if that was partly influenced by my fatigued CNS, so my overall power was lower than normal? Notwithstanding that I doubt it would have reached much more than a few beats more even if I was fresh.

Sounds like I just need to buck up a bit and put myself through a proper HR max test. Based on the feedback, I'm thinking I should actually be able to push the HR up a little higher than what I have seen in the past. I'll be sure to warn my wife and kids that, if they hear me rolling around or writhing in pain in the garage, it's perfectly normal.

With training, I try to do something every day but it normally works out to be about 6 days a week. The past week I was able to do something every day which was nice.

Generally, I will do some kind of endurance or aerobic work two sessions in a row, then strength train, and repeat. The strength stuff is still important to me and I will be keeping it in as the few times I have tried to put a pause on it to make time for other pursuits, things didn't turn out how I wanted. Not to get off on a tangent or soapbox as I think the best way to get good at something is to do more of the something you want to get good at (ie. improve rowing by rowing more), maintaining a high level of baseline strength matters to me.

In a perfect world, I would be doing about 10 sessions a week (6 endurance/aerobic, 4 strength) but life and work seem to get in the way - if I ever hit a big lotto payout, then 10 sessions it is!

Here's a snapshot of what last week looked like; I don't really count the dog walks as sessions per se as we are walking at about 10:00 / k pace so a fairly easy stroll through a slightly hilly route we have from our house.

Sunday: 5k dog walk w/ 45lb vest (avg HR 91bpm); Strength Work, "Murph Prep". 1 mile run, 100 pullups, 200 pushups, 200 walking lunges (per leg), 1 mile run w/ 20lb vest

Monday: 14k row

Tuesday: 12k row

Wednesday: 5k dog walk w/ 45lb vest (avg HR 96bpm); Strength Work, Alactic & Aerobic. 10:00 mins in total of 20 rounds - 5 reps KB Swings, 10 reps pushups

Thursday: 10k row (split into two short sessions due to work)

Friday: 14k row

Saturday: 5k dog walk w/ 45lb vest (avg HR 89bpm); Strength Work, "Murph Prep". 1k run, 50 pullups, 100 pushups, 100 walking lunges (per leg), 1k run w/ 45lb vest

[MPx]

I'll be sure to warn my wife and kids that, if they hear me rolling around or writhing in pain in the garage, it's perfectly normal.

With training, I try to do something every day but it normally works out to be about 6 days a week. The past week I was able to do something every day which was nice.

Ha! Yes, a proper MaxHR test may well see you screaming at the end - my wife/family have managed to get used to mine at the end of "Tuesday Sprints" day each week!

I'm like you and train everyday that we are at home, which is nearly all the time, but maybe miss three or four each month. I invest an hour or so each time but don't want to add any more. I think what is key here is understanding your goals and what you want from it (enjoyment wise) to make you keep coming back. My goals are being strong enough and fit enough to be able to do all that I like and need to do around our property. Erging performance in itself is secondary to me - but I'd be lying if I pretended that it doesn't bother me what my scores are. I try very hard to see little or no decline year on year, which I have to say is starting to look like a loosing battle (you are plenty young enough to go for improvements every year for many years yet). But I still do my two dumbbell sessions each week because I don't want to lose the strength, even if that doesn't help my erging.

So I think if your current plan is enjoyable for you and meeting your critical goals then its a great plan and you should stick with it. But if you decide you want to improve your erging scores, then I suspect you're going to have to give over at least one, maybe two, sessions a week to short intervals and/or long intervals at a harder pace as those aspects of erging delivery look to be missing currently. Best of luck with it...