Are we training too easy?

[Tsnor]

I would very much like to know what you think about "sweetspot" training. This is a cycling term for staying sub Anaerobic threshold for long periods. Clearly shorter is equivalent for rowing, but is this UT1 training (as I define it)?

IMO training in "sweetspot" as one or two of the three hard workout you do a week is excellent when mixed with long/slow.

Training in "sweetspot" as your dominant training (as proposed in some cycling training plans) is not optimal. But is significantly better than no training, its just not as good as other approaches.

The science behind why I think this is in this video (just ignore the snarky comments, the science is mainstream). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0n-nnRbFBs

An example study: "Six weeks of a polarized training-intensity distribution leads to greater physiological and performance adaptations than a threshold model in trained cyclists" Threshold is sweetspot. Study weekly workout time was 6-7 hours, with the sweetspot group doing slightly more hours per week to get the total work done equivalent https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23264537/

Another study (on ironman competitors, zone 1= long/slow, zone 2 = threshold=sweetspot): "Training-Intensity Distribution During an Ironman Season: Relationship With Competition Performance" "Conclusions: While athletes perform with HR mainly in zone 2, better performances are associated with more training time spent in zone 1. A high amount of cycling training in zone 2 may contribute to poorer overall performance." https://journals.humankinetics.com/view ... e-p332.xml

Another study: "Does Polarized Training Improve Performance in Recreational Runners?" "Conclusions: Polarized training can stimulate greater training effects than between-thresholds training in recreational runners." https://journals.humankinetics.com/view ... e-p265.xml

Studies are never perfect. The best training for you is the training you're willing to do.

[H2O]

Personally I am confused at what people mean by the anaerobic threshold.

I take it to mean one hour max pace. In my case 2:00 splits. That fits with the training bands from the c2 training guide for my 2K (7:12),
where the AT band is 2:00 - 1:54.

[jamesg]

anaerobic threshold

See Conconi. His thesis was that a HR/Power graph was linear up to the Ae/An Threshold (called inflexion point), where anaerobic power kicked in and the slope almost disappeared, so distinguishing two main types of training, above and below AT.

To do this type of research he had to use a method that gave the actual Power produced, such as a C2 ergometer, setting the Power levels and measuring the HRs.

If we wanted to find our aerobic/anaerobic threshold we had to do a step test at increasing power, with at least two data points higher than the inflexion point. And the time on each step naturally has to be long enough to see the new heart rate.

And repeat the test, since a key idea was that training pushes the inflexion point to the right on the graph. This may have been the catch: he was jailed apparently because the research was a blind for perf enha drug use.

But it's caused a new industry to appear so some are happy.

[iain]

Thanks for that James, I understand where Anaerobic threshold is, just not what people mean by an AT workout. Is this kept below AT (ie sweetspot), or around AT?

[nick rockliff]

Thanks for that James, I understand where Anaerobic threshold is, just not what people mean by an AT workout. Is this kept below AT (ie sweetspot), or around AT?

I always trained ~AT HR with the 4 x 2k 4 min recovery the main go to AT session.

[iain]

I always trained ~AT HR with the 4 x 2k 4 min recovery the main go to AT session.

Not sure how agressive you were with these, but in all out PP sessions I am above AT for all 4 and >95% in the last having exceeded At in the first quarter. I have always thought of these as AT intervals, but not sure how that links to AT HR.

[nick rockliff]

I always trained ~AT HR with the 4 x 2k 4 min recovery the main go to AT session.

Not sure how agressive you were with these, but in all out PP sessions I am above AT for all 4 and >95% in the last having exceeded At in the first quarter. I have always thought of these as AT intervals, but not sure how that links to AT HR.

Not aggressive at all, my HR at AT (4mmol) was 165 which was 95% max HR.

My interpretation of an AT session was to keep HR on or just under/over 165. Best way was intervals. For me rate for these would be r24 or r26.

[H2O]

I always trained ~AT HR with the 4 x 2k 4 min recovery the main go to AT session.

Can you tell us how the splits were in comparison to your 2K split?

[nick rockliff]

I always trained ~AT HR with the 4 x 2k 4 min recovery the main go to AT session.

Can you tell us how the splits were in comparison to your 2K split?

From memory r24 would have been 1.43 against 2k which would have been 1.34/35 r31 at that time.

[jcross485]

From memory r24 would have been 1.43 against 2k which would have been 1.34/35 r31 at that time.

Interesting!

Roughly 320 watts vs. 410 - 420 watts when using power, or about 76% - 78% 2k power, granted different rates.

From what I have been able to come up with through reading / research, a rowing FTP or that LT2 / Anaerobic Threshold mark happens right around 76% of 2k watts, give or take, so your numbers are pretty well right in line.

It makes me question what I am calling my "threshold" intervals, ie. a bit too easy.

[H2O]

Today I finished the experiment with working out more easily with more volume.

I did a much larger volume of UT2 combined with uphill hiking (also UT2 intensity, duration: 35 - 75 mins uphill).
Very few TR workouts and most of those on the slower end, some of these literally unusually comfortable.
Since 2024-12-01 only 14 workouts with paces 1:52 or faster.
Lots of AT workouts at the faster end and more volume than in the C2 training plan.
Subjectively much less high intensity than what I used to do.

Effekt:
the 60 minutes moved from 206W to 219W.
2K moved from 7:11.5 to 7:08.8

After doing only comfortable TR workouts (but in the TR band) I noticed that I started struggling with a 1:54 pace for say 20 mins,
I was forced to put in harder TR workouts and also move the AT workouts to the faster end of the band (last 3 weeks).
I used to do a lot of low intensity stuff on the bike but no longer have access to one, so now I do everything on the rower.
I don't think this approach is ideal. I feel a lot of muscular fatigue and it is hard to get the heart rate up. I only got to 156 on the 2K time trial
while I have seen 167 before.

I think I am going back to the old approach.

[iain]

Today I finished the experiment with working out more easily with more volume.

How long was this for? Interesting re HR. After increasing UT2 by 300% and cutting AN workouts by about 50%, improved across the board in 4 months, but I am seeing much lower HR. Previously all in 5k has got me to >93% of max halfway through. But for that CTC, felt a 95%+ effort, but only exceeded 90% HRmax in final 1k. I see that as a positive although unsure whether I was kidding myself and should have gone faster given still 2.5S/500M below 2021 best (the last time I was doing similar volume but was doing more VO2Max work).

[H2O]

How long was this for?

I started with the Christmas challenge, so 2.5 months.

[mjhatten]

I'm a casual rower. I mix row-erging with exercise biking and treadmill to achieve a level of cardio exercise to maintain, but not necessarily improve, my health. (I'm 77 and can feel the capability changes that age brings.) I don't periodize because I don't take part in scheduled competitions. I hit the rower for a 30 minute session about 3 times a week. I'm firmly in the "grip it and rip it" school. I check the Concept 2 Rankings and the Rowing Level Calculator to see where I place with my age peers. I try to stay in the top quartile.

My usual row is in the AT zone with peaks in TR. I calculate that I am hitting at about 9 Mets. (Mets = Cal/Min * 200 / 3.5 / Wt(kg)) I take about 2 recovery days a week. (My schedule is not fixed because life happens.) I expect that my raw performance may flag over the next years but I just have to roll with nature's punches. If I can keep my position with my age-peers, I'll be happy.

So no, I don't think I'm training too easy. If I can keep my schedule and stay in my quartile, I figure I'm doing okay.

[H2O]

My usual row is in the AT zone with peaks in TR. ... I take about 2 recovery days a week. (My schedule is not fixed because life happens.)

I am pretty sure that this is too hard, of course depending on volume. How long are these rows?