Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[Joris]

Nice! 2 weeks later get that good taper and sub 8 2k is there! Just hold 1:59.9 at start and at last 300 blast it!

I know it's just a very rough guideline, but Pete says “8 x 500m = 3seconds faster than 2k pb pace (2k – 3)” so that means that my target is in sight, but it will be a very close call. Honestly, I don't think I can sustain a lower than 2:00 split for 2km yet, but we'll see.

You are faster than me… the last 8*500m 2R I managed 1:59 ish at r20. Even if I allowed r24 or r26 I might not have squeaked out more than 1:55 or 1;54…

Oh I’m curious… what rating do you do these on?

I did the first zeven reps at ratings between 27.2 and 28.4 and the last rep at r28.7.
Of course, I wouldn't come close to those times if I had to hold r20, so I don't think it makes sense to compare.

[reuben]

I know it's just a very rough guideline, but Pete says “8 x 500m = 3seconds faster than 2k pb pace (2k – 3)” so that means that my target is in sight, but it will be a very close call.

Where does Pete say that? Looking here I can't find it.

https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/

But I do see this.

"Look back to week 23, and the 8 x 500m session you completed. This is roughly the pace you should be able to hold for a 2000m row now, so that will give you a good idea how to pace it."

[iain]

I know it's just a very rough guideline, but Pete says “8 x 500m = 3seconds faster than 2k pb pace (2k – 3)” so that means that my target is in sight, but it will be a very close call. Honestly, I don't think I can sustain a lower than 2:00 split for 2km yet, but we'll see.

I did the first zeven reps at ratings between 27.2 and 28.4 and the last rep at r28.7.

I don't think 500s are a good reference for 2k. Most people can hold significantly higher ratings for 500s and this is built into the 3S difference, so on the face of it, if you can hold R27 for the first 1500 of a 2k, sub-8 is well within your capability. However, the mental challenge is very different and shouldn't be under estimated. If you manage close to 2:00 average for 4 x 1k then this is a better predictor as you will have held the higher pace at above threshold HR for significant periods rather than just for a min or so per interval. How 1ks and a 2k compare does depend on how good you are at focussing on just the current interval. I find that I am well aware in interval 2 that I am not halfway and so the mental challeng is similar to the 2nd 500 of a 2k, while the middle of teh 3rd 1k is in the full knowledge that the interval will need to be repeated and so despite the small numbers on the monitor, I have a lot less to do, this makes it a good practice for the "deadzone" 3rd 500 of a 2k that is the real test. The one easier part of the 1ks is that if you start too quickly then you have time to recover while there is a high price in a 2k.

Reuben, may not be in the plan (this was from comments on the lunchtime plan so rest 3:30). Far too many people have used these guides as a starting pace for the PP rather than where they hoped to get to. Pete thought that 8 x 500 r2' would be done around 2k pace if at the same rating, but could be done quicker if you "trade rate for pace". The trouble is that how much people recover varies hugely as does their ability to rate up. I know people who can do 8 x 500 r3:30 at >10 strokes per min faster than a 2k rather than the 2-3 that is more typical!

[reuben]

Reuben, may not be in the plan (this was from comments on the lunchtime plan so rest 3:30)

Interesting. In the link above the 8x500 sessions are 2:00 rest.

[iain]

Reuben, may not be in the plan (this was from comments on the lunchtime plan so rest 3:30)

Interesting. In the link above the 8x500 sessions are 2:00 rest.

Yes, they are longer on the lunchtime plan! So 7:50 might well be achievable for you now, but with all the caveats above, I would be inclined to go out at 1:59 when you are fresh and motivated to hang on for that sub-8! That said, I would probably do a 4 x 1k trying to get all reps sub 2:00 first to increase your confidence. Pete saifd that if you don't have doubts about keeping the pace going to the end by 40% through then you could have gone faster! That is not an encouragement to speed up more, just a warning that an all out TT especially on the 2k is about rowing on the edge. Somewhere between 400 and 1k it will suddenly get harder and you need to have confidence that you can keep it up and push through. After that time goes slowly, but you need to revel in maintaining your pace despite how you feel. The 3rd 500 is the "Deadzone" where it increasingly feels like each stroke is harder than the last. You need to maintain your form and increase your rating if the pace starts to slow despite this. Then most of us manage to find a bit extra in the last 500 as the end approaches to make your new PB better!

Good luck

Iain

[Joris]

Reuben, may not be in the plan (this was from comments on the lunchtime plan so rest 3:30)

Interesting. In the link above the 8x500 sessions are 2:00 rest.

Yes, they are longer on the lunchtime plan! So 7:50 might well be achievable for you now, but with all the caveats above, I would be inclined to go out at 1:59 when you are fresh and motivated to hang on for that sub-8! That said, I would probably do a 4 x 1k trying to get all reps sub 2:00 first to increase your confidence. Pete saifd that if you don't have doubts about keeping the pace going to the end by 40% through then you could have gone faster! That is not an encouragement to speed up more, just a warning that an all out TT especially on the 2k is about rowing on the edge. Somewhere between 400 and 1k it will suddenly get harder and you need to have confidence that you can keep it up and push through. After that time goes slowly, but you need to revel in maintaining your pace despite how you feel. The 3rd 500 is the "Deadzone" where it increasingly feels like each stroke is harder than the last. You need to maintain your form and increase your rating if the pace starts to slow despite this. Then most of us manage to find a bit extra in the last 500 as the end approaches to make your new PB better!

Good luck

Iain

@Reuben: indeed, I picked up this quote from the Pete Plan, but I didn't realise that resting time is longer there compared to the beginner Pete Plan.

@Ian: Thanks for all the feedback. That doesn't sound like an enjoyable experience, but after the plan, I am ready to give it a go. Also for the other distances (up to 10k) I then want to test what my current level is, so I know where the plan has taken me and so I have a benchmark to look back on afterwards. Still to be seen, however, whether I go for a 100% effort on all those distances, or an effort at, let's say, 85-95%. It is probably neither very wise nor realistic to schedule several 100% efforts in a short period of time. And as said, the intention is rather to set a target time for each distance. But yeah, I can plan to go the deepest on the 2k time trial.

Concerning the 4 x 1k. In week 16 I already achieved a split of 1:59, so back than my 2k goal felt like an easily achievable goal with another 8 weeks of training to go. But than I had a backlash (probably due to overtraining and/or undernutrition, or just temporary stagnation) and in week 21 I failed to match the same pace, in what was in hindsight probably my worst session of the plan so far (reps of 1:59, 2:01, 2:05 and 2:05).
In week 22 I achieved 1:59 again for the 5 x 800m session, so I hope I'm on my way up again.
The last session of the plan foresees another 4 x 1k.

[reuben]

Reuben, may not be in the plan (this was from comments on the lunchtime plan so rest 3:30)

Interesting. In the link above the 8x500 sessions are 2:00 rest.

Yes, they are longer on the lunchtime plan! So 7:50 might well be achievable for you now, but with all the caveats above, I would be inclined to go out at 1:59 when you are fresh and motivated to hang on for that sub-8! That said, I would probably do a 4 x 1k trying to get all reps sub 2:00 first to increase your confidence. Pete saifd that if you don't have doubts about keeping the pace going to the end by 40% through then you could have gone faster! That is not an encouragement to speed up more, just a warning that an all out TT especially on the 2k is about rowing on the edge. Somewhere between 400 and 1k it will suddenly get harder and you need to have confidence that you can keep it up and push through. After that time goes slowly, but you need to revel in maintaining your pace despite how you feel. The 3rd 500 is the "Deadzone" where it increasingly feels like each stroke is harder than the last. You need to maintain your form and increase your rating if the pace starts to slow despite this. Then most of us manage to find a bit extra in the last 500 as the end approaches to make your new PB better!

Well, now I'm completely befuddled. Why does Pete specify different rest periods between the PP and the BPP? Which Pete should I believe? How many Petes are there, anyway?

PP: 4x1k 5:00r
BPP: 4x1k 3:00r

PP: 8x500m 3:30r
BPP: 8x500m 2:00r

Looking at two recent log entries, I've done:

8x500m 2r at 2:06 (last at 2:03.5), 27spm, HR > 95% (estimated)
4x1000m 3r at 2:09, 27spm, HR > 95% (estimated)

Granted, I don't know my true HRmax, but those sessions were pretty hard, especially toward the end, and in the last two reps of the 4x1k my heart rate was pegged at a number which was no longer increasing, and my pace actually dropped in the last rep by almost a full second. If that really was my HRmax, then I guess the question becomes how long I can mentally and physically hold that level of exertion.

Looking at the rankings for last season, I've been thinking that I could get fairly close to my group's 50th percentile of 2:04.1, but you're talking about sub 8 or even 7:50, which seems more than daunting. I'd be quite happy to reach 2:04, or even 2:06, but maybe I'm underestimating myself or not hitting the intervals hard enough, especially the earlier reps. Also, I don't think that I've ever rowed a single stroke < 2:00, even when spinning up the flywheel at the beginning of a session/rep, so I'd need to practice that a few times as well, whether by trying to apply more power or using a higher rate. Maybe an Nx1k 3r session with pace at 2:00 or faster for as many reps as I can stand. Or should I use the PP rest of 5r?

[Joris]

8x500m 2r at 2:06 (last at 2:03.5), 27spm, HR > 95% (estimated)
4x1000m 3r at 2:09, 27spm, HR > 95% (estimated)

Granted, I don't know my true HRmax, but those sessions were pretty hard, especially toward the end, and in the last two reps of the 4x1k my heart rate was pegged at a number which was no longer increasing, and my pace actually dropped in the last rep by almost a full second. If that really was my HRmax, then I guess the question becomes how long I can mentally and physically hold that level of exertion.

Looking at the rankings for last season, I've been thinking that I could get fairly close to my group's 50th percentile of 2:04.1, but you're talking about sub 8 or even 7:50, which seems more than daunting. I'd be quite happy to reach 2:04, or even 2:06, but maybe I'm underestimating myself or not hitting the intervals hard enough, especially the earlier reps. Also, I don't think that I've ever rowed a single stroke < 2:00, even when spinning up the flywheel at the beginning of a session/rep, so I'd need to practice that a few times as well, whether by trying to apply more power or using a higher rate. Maybe an Nx1k 3r session with pace at 2:00 or faster for as many reps as I can stand. Or should I use the PP rest of 5r?

I think you should just continue doing as you are doing and then see where you end up.
If you want to set yourself a goal, don't base it on the achievements of some other random person on this forum but rather on a goal that seems realistic for yourself within x number of weeks or months.
The 50th percentile of your age group doesn't seem very far off anymore, so that could indeed be a goal, but perhaps you shouldn't put the pressure on yourself to be able to achieve that already by the end of the BPP plan, since that's very short notice.

If I see correctly, you fall under the 60-64 age group?
I am in the 40-49 age group and there the 50th percentile is 1:58.1. Or even 1:57.3 if I further refine the filters with 'male' and 'lightweight'). That seems a bit too far off for me for now, which is why I'm aiming for sub 8 first.
Maybe you can also incorporate an intermediate step?

[PleaseLockIn]

8x500m 2r at 2:06 (last at 2:03.5), 27spm, HR > 95% (estimated)
4x1000m 3r at 2:09, 27spm, HR > 95% (estimated)

Granted, I don't know my true HRmax, but those sessions were pretty hard, especially toward the end, and in the last two reps of the 4x1k my heart rate was pegged at a number which was no longer increasing, and my pace actually dropped in the last rep by almost a full second. If that really was my HRmax, then I guess the question becomes how long I can mentally and physically hold that level of exertion.

Looking at the rankings for last season, I've been thinking that I could get fairly close to my group's 50th percentile of 2:04.1, but you're talking about sub 8 or even 7:50, which seems more than daunting. I'd be quite happy to reach 2:04, or even 2:06, but maybe I'm underestimating myself or not hitting the intervals hard enough, especially the earlier reps. Also, I don't think that I've ever rowed a single stroke < 2:00, even when spinning up the flywheel at the beginning of a session/rep, so I'd need to practice that a few times as well, whether by trying to apply more power or using a higher rate. Maybe an Nx1k 3r session with pace at 2:00 or faster for as many reps as I can stand. Or should I use the PP rest of 5r?

I think you should just continue doing as you are doing and then see where you end up.
If you want to set yourself a goal, don't base it on the achievements of some other random person on this forum but rather on a goal that seems realistic for yourself within x number of weeks or months.
The 50th percentile of your age group doesn't seem very far off anymore, so that could indeed be a goal, but perhaps you shouldn't put the pressure on yourself to be able to achieve that already by the end of the BPP plan, since that's very short notice.

If I see correctly, you fall under the 60-64 age group?
I am in the 40-49 age group and there the 50th percentile is 1:58.1. Or even 1:57.3 if I further refine the filters with 'male' and 'lightweight'). That seems a bit too far off for me for now, which is why I'm aiming for sub 8 first.
Maybe you can also incorporate an intermediate step?

Yeah, sub 8 first seems good for you… just get the confidence and rate up.

For Reuben 50th percentile is quite a nice mark. To be safer perhaps practice intervals at 2:03-2:04 and push harder?

I had various intervals where the HR was “stuck” around 195 or in one case 198-199. Then I decided to push anyway and got 202 and it kept rising. Learning to push hard, I learnt was a skill in itself.

In the 19-29 lightweight age group 50th percentile is 1:47.5 and 25th is 1:55.8. Our 25th percentile is above the 40-49 50th percentile. That’s something.

Perhaps try erging in front of an audience and get them to cheer? That might push you a bit. Besides you can go deepest for the 2k. Guess you could try high rate training if you want to be extra confident…

[reuben]

I think you should just continue doing as you are doing and then see where you end up.

That's pretty much always been my plan, and still is. That was the plan when I started and had pretty serious doubts that I'd even make it to the end. 24 weeks? 12k rows?!? But here I am!

If you want to set yourself a goal, don't base it on the achievements of some other random person on this forum but rather on a goal that seems realistic for yourself within x number of weeks or months.

I have no illusions regarding being faster than anyone here. As stated several times, my only real goal is better overall health and fitness, and erging is only one part of that.

The 50th percentile of your age group doesn't seem very far off anymore, so that could indeed be a goal, but perhaps you shouldn't put the pressure on yourself to be able to achieve that already by the end of the BPP plan, since that's very short notice.

Again, I agree. It's possible, but I think slightly out of my reach. Then again, I remember when I thought I should be able to crack the 25th percentile, but the 50th still seemed to be in another galaxy. I've never tried, so who knows?

If I see correctly, you fall under the 60-64 age group?

65-69, male, heavyweight. The current season is relatively new (no sub-7 2k so far), so I tend to look at last season as a more representative data set.
https://log.concept2.com/rankings/2025/ ... H&gender=M

I am in the 40-49 age group and there the 50th percentile is 1:58.1. Or even 1:57.3 if I further refine the filters with 'male' and 'lightweight'). That seems a bit too far off for me for now, which is why I'm aiming for sub 8 first.

Good luck! Hopefully you'll go sub-8, I'll break 50th percentile, or PLI will make the team. Not sure about DJ's goal at this point, if any.

Maybe you can also incorporate an intermediate step?

I'm not sure what it would be - I'm a noob on the BPP, after all. But iain's suggestion of 4x1k with 2r or 3r rather than 8x500 2r sounds good. The PP specifies 5r and the BPP specifies 3r for 4x1k, and I'd even try a 3x1k 2r if planning for a PB attempt, but again, I don't really know what the heck I'm doing. I do agree with iain that 4x1 is probably a better predictor than 8x500, depending on the rest periods. Whether or not I can achieve more than 1 rep at 2:00 or faster is unknown. That would be a whole new world for me, and would probably take a few weeks to figure out.

[reuben]

For Reuben 50th percentile is quite a nice mark.

I think so. It's far beyond what I thought I could do when I started.

To be safer perhaps practice intervals at 2:03-2:04 and push harder?

Something like that. I like iain's 4x1k idea, trying for 2:00, or maybe even faster. If I fail, then there's always 2:02, 2:04, and so on, until I find what I can sustain for 3-4 intervals with 2-3 minutes rest.

Perhaps try erging in front of an audience and get them to cheer? That might push you a bit. Besides you can go deepest for the 2k. Guess you could try high rate training if you want to be extra confident…

Ha ha! I live in a semi-rural area where physical exercise is typically a lot of farming or home gardening, depending on the amount of land - people with strong hands, backs, and forearms, who may also have cattle, chickens, horses, or an orchard. They never move fast, but they work. Hour after hour, day after day, decade after decade. My career was completely different, but I have a lot of respect for the work they do, and the products and services they provide.

I grow most of my own vegetables, even in winter, depending on the crop. With proper precautions I grow various types of lettuce and similar greens all winter, and last winter we had sustained temperatures down to 15 to 25F (-9 to -5C). I freeze some vegetables (not lettuce!) for the winter, make jam from berries at the farmers market, etc. I've grown various types of peppers for years, but this year I plan to make my own paprika from those peppers for the first time. Fingers crossed!

We have a lot of water nearby, but competitive rowing, either indoors or out, is pretty much unknown as far as I know. Lots of people have boats and kayaks for both fishing/crabbing/oysters and pleasure, commercial or private. Around here, seafood is another source of food which can be obtained for a reasonable one time investment with relatively low recurring cost.

Nevertheless, there are hikers and cyclists like myself.

Asking a cattle farming neighbor to cheer me on my erg would probably elicit a funny look!