30R20

[Sakly]

SLOWLY building back after some severe gut inflammation issues last week.
Today 2x10min skierg with 3:30 rest.

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M	♥️
20:00.0	4,928	2:01.7	194	967	42	157
10:00.0	2,460	2:01.9	193	964	42	156
10:00.0	2,467	2:01.6	195	969	43	158

After that a few (3-5) reps of rows, pushups, ring-pullups and handstand pushups, only to get a feel for it.

This was the wrong thread, but cannot edit or delete this post anymore...

[MPx]

I did it! Hurrah! 8010m.

Brilliant...well done Neil.

[ahooton]

I did it! Hurrah! 8010m. Decided to have an early go (ahead of my ChatGPT training schedule!) and take advantage of the cooler weather in the UK at the moment. Thanks all for your advice! It definitely helped

Amazing result. My best was 8056 and was one of the hardest erg sessions I’ve ever done so fully aware of the pain you went through to achieve!!! Great stuff.

[Cricketbat]

Thank you!

[MPx]

And probably no need to worry about it. To be in the true sense of the challenge, its 600 strokes and IMO that's your target. But the way the PM is programmed it rounds down. r21 would be 630. 629 or less will give you an r20 in the result. I've seen an elite rower taking advantage of that to max his score (admittedly going for 9k !!) but it seemed a bit like cheating to me.

As far as I know the PM5 rounds at .5, so 614 would give you r20, but 615 and above would round to r21. But never tried, my r20 is always exactly matching, regardless of time

Its too hot for normal training so I thought I'd try to prove the rounding thing. Made a complete horlicks of it and proved very little! As I'm pretty accurate on r20 but not r21, my main attempt was to do 20 mins r20 but stop early to get 399 strokes with my expectation being an r19 result. Managed exactly 399 strokes (by stopping after the 6s to go stroke) and was surprised to see an r20 result. So maybe Sascha was right. Too hot to do another 20 mins so decided to do 10 instead. This time stopped after the last 15s counter stroke and it gave me 196 strokes...and an r19. So r19 for a 19.6 avg. I wanted to push a bit harder, so did another 5 mins but messed up my counting and only did 97 strokes instead of 99 - doh! - so obvs an r19 result. I'll try 20mins again sometime and 398/397 strokes and see where the avg changes. Its clearly above 19.6 but not what I thought of just one stroke off 20s.

[Dangerscouse]

Just out of curiosity I looked at my 12k from this morning.

It was 48:38 and 967 strokes, so if it was 48:30 exactly, it should have been 970 strokes. It was three strokes less, then add for simplicity, three strokes (ie the additional eight seconds, rounded up to ten seconds), so only six strokes less than exactly r20.

R19 for this session would have been 925 strokes, so if we split the difference, that makes it 946 strokes or more for it be r20. I did 967, and it registered on ErgZone as r20, the PM5 as r20, but the logbook as r19.

Tbh, I'm not bothered about it, but it doesn't make any sense as it's not even close to r19, and at the very least it would be nice to have some consistency in the reporting.

[Sakly]

And probably no need to worry about it. To be in the true sense of the challenge, its 600 strokes and IMO that's your target. But the way the PM is programmed it rounds down. r21 would be 630. 629 or less will give you an r20 in the result. I've seen an elite rower taking advantage of that to max his score (admittedly going for 9k !!) but it seemed a bit like cheating to me.

As far as I know the PM5 rounds at .5, so 614 would give you r20, but 615 and above would round to r21. But never tried, my r20 is always exactly matching, regardless of time

Its too hot for normal training so I thought I'd try to prove the rounding thing. Made a complete horlicks of it and proved very little! As I'm pretty accurate on r20 but not r21, my main attempt was to do 20 mins r20 but stop early to get 399 strokes with my expectation being an r19 result. Managed exactly 399 strokes (by stopping after the 6s to go stroke) and was surprised to see an r20 result. So maybe Sascha was right. Too hot to do another 20 mins so decided to do 10 instead. This time stopped after the last 15s counter stroke and it gave me 196 strokes...and an r19. So r19 for a 19.6 avg. I wanted to push a bit harder, so did another 5 mins but messed up my counting and only did 97 strokes instead of 99 - doh! - so obvs an r19 result. I'll try 20mins again sometime and 398/397 strokes and see where the avg changes. Its clearly above 19.6 but not what I thought of just one stroke off 20s.

What do you mean with the bold marked part?
You stopped rowing 15s before the 10min timer elapsed? That could be different to rowing until the end with the same amount of strokes.

I am quite sure, that the PM5 rounds that way, as I failed a challenge exactly due to this problem.
I managed to have the exact same data shown on the PM5 for two different intervals, but with two different rates. That means the PM5 used digits to calculate you can't even see on the PM5.
I think it was 6x500m r20.

[JaapvanE]

I am quite sure, that the PM5 rounds that way, as I failed a challenge exactly due to this problem.
I managed to have the exact same data shown on the PM5 for two different intervals, but with two different rates. That means the PM5 used digits to calculate you can't even see on the PM5.

And ErgData uses another rounding mechanism. In validating ORM I often wrote down the monitor time for a fixed distance piece, just to find that the ErgData time and thus the LogBook differs due to rounding. Quite annoying, and slightly surprising as some races have been decided by these margins.

[Sakly]

I am quite sure, that the PM5 rounds that way, as I failed a challenge exactly due to this problem.
I managed to have the exact same data shown on the PM5 for two different intervals, but with two different rates. That means the PM5 used digits to calculate you can't even see on the PM5.

And ErgData uses another rounding mechanism. In validating ORM I often wrote down the monitor time for a fixed distance piece, just to find that the ErgData time and thus the LogBook differs due to rounding. Quite annoying, and slightly surprising as some races have been decided by these margins.

OK, never faced that issue yet.

[MPx]

This time stopped after the last 15s counter stroke

What do you mean with the bold marked part?
You stopped rowing 15s before the 10min timer elapsed? That could be different to rowing until the end with the same amount of strokes.

Yes exactly that. Erging at r20 accurately is easyish given the 1 stroke every 3 secs so that's what I did and just stopped before the end to do less strokes. As I thought I only needed -1 to get an R19 it was the obvious way to go. When that didn't work I wanted to do less strokes, but not get to 19.5 so I needed to loose 4 strokes in 10 mins hence stop 4 strokes before the end of the time... and that indeed gave me r19 despite doing steady R20 up to that point.

And ErgData uses another rounding mechanism. In validating ORM I often wrote down the monitor time for a fixed distance piece, just to find that the ErgData time and thus the LogBook differs due to rounding. Quite annoying, and slightly surprising as some races have been decided by these margins.

OK, never faced that issue yet.

I'm amazed you've not seen that Sascha. Happens regularly to me on sprints. Can't tell you how many times I scored a 15.9 on the PM for 100m before I finally got one in Ergdata/log that hadn't rounded down to 16.0. I think its to do with the last stroke - on very fast pieces the last stroke is often slower than previous (ie dying!) and sometimes I forget to row through the finish so there's a fraction of a second coasting - both of which will lead to a round down, although not sure why the PM wouldn't see that.

[Sakly]

This time stopped after the last 15s counter stroke

What do you mean with the bold marked part?
You stopped rowing 15s before the 10min timer elapsed? That could be different to rowing until the end with the same amount of strokes.

Yes exactly that. Erging at r20 accurately is easyish given the 1 stroke every 3 secs so that's what I did and just stopped before the end to do less strokes. As I thought I only needed -1 to get an R19 it was the obvious way to go. When that didn't work I wanted to do less strokes, but not get to 19.5 so I needed to loose 4 strokes in 10 mins hence stop 4 strokes before the end of the time... and that indeed gave me r19 despite doing steady R20 up to that point.

I asked as 196 strokes give you 19.6 average, which in my theory should give r20, too, as it is above 19.5, but it didn't. I really don't get the math of the PM5

And ErgData uses another rounding mechanism. In validating ORM I often wrote down the monitor time for a fixed distance piece, just to find that the ErgData time and thus the LogBook differs due to rounding. Quite annoying, and slightly surprising as some races have been decided by these margins.

OK, never faced that issue yet.

I'm amazed you've not seen that Sascha. Happens regularly to me on sprints. Can't tell you how many times I scored a 15.9 on the PM for 100m before I finally got one in Ergdata/log that hadn't rounded down to 16.0. I think its to do with the last stroke - on very fast pieces the last stroke is often slower than previous (ie dying!) and sometimes I forget to row through the finish so there's a fraction of a second coasting - both of which will lead to a round down, although not sure why the PM wouldn't see that.

I often see that the end screen of the PM5 (when you have not pressed the menu button for saving yet) shows a finish time, which then is rounded up by a tenth of a second in the log, when you pressed menu to store it. But I never saw that this stored time in the PM5 differed from the log in the logbook.

[MPx]

I often see that the end screen of the PM5 (when you have not pressed the menu button for saving yet) shows a finish time, which then is rounded up by a tenth of a second in the log, when you pressed menu to store it. But I never saw that this stored time in the PM5 differed from the log in the logbook.

Ahh yes...that's what I see too and I understand the difference now.

[Sakly]

I often see that the end screen of the PM5 (when you have not pressed the menu button for saving yet) shows a finish time, which then is rounded up by a tenth of a second in the log, when you pressed menu to store it. But I never saw that this stored time in the PM5 differed from the log in the logbook.

Ahh yes...that's what I see too and I understand the difference now.

And that bothered me several times, too