Wolverine Plan Discussion

[old] arakawa · Post by **[old] arakawa** » November 12th, 2005, 2:40 pm

Confessions of a Wolverine Plan Newbie Day 5: Level 3 / 12k @ 2k x 115.6% Full disclosure: Although this was my fifth daily WP workout, my plan called for me to do it Friday morning, not this (Saturday) morning. I had two workouts yesterday to make up my missed Wednesday and Thursday workouts. Today's going to be another two-a-day day, where I do my Saturday Level 4 workout this evening. Then, I'll be all caught up for this week (Sunday is my rest day). By the way, two-a-days are tiring. It takes a lot of discipline to keep to even a one-a-day for six days a week (something I failed to do twice in my first four days); imagine how much discipline one must exercise to average one and a half workouts a day for six days a week. That discipline difference is probably one of the big reasons why my 2k times haven't improved for about a year while Mike Caviston's the world record holder and setting PBs at age 40. Today's Level 3 workout is a 12k continuous at 2:04.6. I nailed the average pace, and pulled the piece at 22 SPM. Observations:<ul><li>Before I started, I was very confident that I could do the 12k at 2:04.6, since I did a half marathon about three weeks ago at 2:04.3. The fact that I rowed over 30k yesterday with my makeup Level 2 and Level 4 workouts did make today's Level 3 workout a bit more challenging, however.</li></ul>My next Level 3 continuous workout is two weeks from yesterday. I think I'll up the distance from 12k to 13k while keeping the pace at 2:04.6.

[old] Mike Caviston · Post by **[old] Mike Caviston** » November 12th, 2005, 7:28 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 11 2005, 04:37 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>A quick L3 question for the group ... In the copy of the Plan I have, it says, for Level 3: "Sample workouts include continuous 12K (beginning at shorter distances in the fall and progressing to even longer distances by spring)... and 15 x 3’ (with 1’ recovery between pieces)." ...Is that 15 reps of 3 minutes? ...Seems like a very different workout than the continuous piece at 12K. </td></tr></table> In my experience, there are three workouts which most closely relate to 2K ability. The first/best predictor of my 2K ability is 4 x 1K (Level 1); the next best predictor is 4 x 2K (Level 2); and third is a Level 3 interval workout. I have referred to Level 3 intervals periodically over the past couple years but here is a chance to clarify and consolidate information. First off, Level 3 intervals (I’ll say L3I for short) are (like 4 x 10’/L4) a supplementary or advanced workout to be done in conjunction with a weekly Continuous Level 3. [As explained previously, one of the cornerstones of a WP program should be a continuous Level 3 of 60’ or more.] Some basic points about L3I: 1) The basic format is a 3:1 work:recovery ratio. I suggest 3’ on/1’ off, 4’ on/1’20” off, or 5’ on/1’40” off. I always used these formats in a team setting so that slower and faster athletes could all stay on the same start/stop schedule. But for my personal workouts I prefer to use distance for the work intervals; the two formats I favor involve either 1250m or 1500m for each work interval (1K might be appropriate for slower athletes). I set the recovery interval as 1/3 of the estimated time for my work interval (since this involves extra math some might prefer to stick to 3’ on/1’ off.) The 1500m interval is actually pretty easy to work with since the recovery interval would be the same as your overall workout GP. 2) The total distance for the L3I work intervals should add up to somewhere between 75-90% of the distance you cover during 60’ of continuous Level 3 rowing. No need to be obsessed with the exact percentage; adjust it to suit your needs and abilities. But that’s a ballpark figure. That would probably mean something like 12-15 x 3’, 8-10 x 1500m, etc. 3) The intensity is roughly (60’ Level 3 Continuous pace) – 3 seconds. E.g., if Level 3 Continuous is 1:51, then L3I is 1:48 (at least to get started). [In Watts, the L3I pace would be about 8% faster than Continuous.] As with other relationships between intensities for different workouts, use it as a rough guide to get started but let the specific workout develop its own history and progress. 4) The recovery can be pretty light, but keep moving. For Level 1 & 2 workouts with higher intensity, the recovery needs to be even more active. For L3I, paddling lightly is fine; just don’t stop entirely. 5) Pacing for each work interval should be continuous or negative split. I prefer to do them with essentially continuous pacing using a small negative split. I prefer to avoid hitting it too hard at the start of each interval, but just settle quickly into my planned Goal Pace. 6) Pacing across the entire workout should also be fairly even with a slight negative split. My format is currently 10 x 1500m (1:45r), so the math is pretty simple when I figure out my strategy. For example, to average 1:46.2 for the entire workout, I do two intervals @ 1:47 and the remaining eight @ 1:46. 7) This workout is deceptively enjoyable in the early stages. It is fun and it is easy to make rapid gains initially. But eventually you cross a threshold and one day you sit down and get blindsided by one of the toughest workouts you can remember doing. I’ve coached athletes who refer to this as the “Level 2 from h3ll”, because the paces get pretty fast and it just goes on and on. In my training, by the end of the season my L3I pace surpasses my initial Level 2 pace from the start of the season. It might be called “Level 2.5”. 8) I find this to be a very valuable workout but I have become increasingly cautious when it comes to advancing the pace. For years I did this workout on a weekly basis, but now I do it only on alternate weeks (alternating with 6K/5K/4K, which I have mentioned previously). 9) Again, this L3I workout is in addition to my Continuous Level 3. As with the 4 x 10’ (L4) workout, many people look at this and say “Ooh, that looks like fun, I’ll do that instead of the Continuous workout!” The WP already has L1 & L2 for intervals and intensity. Make sure to TCB first with plenty of continuous L3 & L4 training before adding another interval session. Enjoy! Mike Caviston

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 12th, 2005, 7:47 pm

Mike: You are a stealth comedian ... first you say they're the workouts from "H3LL", and then you ask us to "enjoy"! Thanks for the clarification ... Mark

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 13th, 2005, 4:15 pm

CONFESSIONS continued ... L4 for 60'. Was off by 15 meters this workout. Last three L4 sixty minute workouts have been off by 15, 27 & 52 meters (latest to oldest workouts), so it appears I'm getting better at hitting the stroke rates and paces, but still not world class! -- Mark

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 13th, 2005, 5:09 pm

Friends: I have not rotated in the pyramid interval workouts for Levels 1 & 2 (yet). I want to do this over the next week or two. I do not know at what pace to do these. Do you have any recommendations? Are all pieces in the pyramid done at the same pace? Do you have the experience to know what your current pace for these is vs. your current 8x500, 4x1000, 4x2000 paces? I would very much appreciate your comments. Thanks, and regards ... Mark

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 14th, 2005, 5:07 pm

CONFESSIONS continued ... PLAN: LEVEL 3 --> 12K continuous row at target pace (2:09 for me, I'm a slow poke). ACTUAL: Just over 9,500M @ below target pace, and then had a spell of EDD (Erg Deficit Disorder). Lower back was tight, but that was only an excuse for almost going crazy with sheer boredom (for some reason) and having to get off the erg. Stopped and stretched on ball (4 to 5 minutes), got back on, and did another 2,500M at target pace -1 (2:08). COMMENTARY: These paces are just a second (or less) slower than my 10K best pace (2:07.8), so it appears the Plan is working ... I just need to find a way to focus and get 12K+ continuous, constant pace, pieces DONE. I can do L4 - 60' workouts without a problem, but the continuous pieces at constant pace are mental torture for me at this time. Suggestions?

[old] kjgress · Post by **[old] kjgress** » November 14th, 2005, 5:10 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 14 2005, 04:07 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>CONFESSIONS continued ... the continuous pieces at constant pace are mental torture for me at this time. Suggestions? </td></tr></table> Look back through the literature (can't recall exactly where) Mike makes some comments and suggestions about breaking up long continuous sequences pace-wise to get some mental exercise in.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 14th, 2005, 5:18 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(kjgress @ Nov 14 2005, 01:10 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Look back through the literature (can't recall exactly where)[right] </td></tr></table> Either can anyone else!

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 14th, 2005, 5:38 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(kjgress @ Nov 14 2005, 05:10 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 14 2005, 04:07 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>CONFESSIONS continued ... the continuous pieces at constant pace are mental torture for me at this time. Suggestions? </td></tr></table> Look back through the literature (can't recall exactly where) Mike makes some comments and suggestions about breaking up long continuous sequences pace-wise to get some mental exercise in. </td></tr></table> Thanks! I think I found it: <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... st&p=38612' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 612</a> This makes sense. I need to try this next continuous L3 workout to see if I can just get through a continuous 12K once ... I know if I do it, it will be easier the next time, and after. It's a mental block for me as the pace was a workout, but nowhere near "put the handle down" from a work standpoint.

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » November 14th, 2005, 8:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Mike Caviston @ Oct 21 2005, 05:22 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> The idea that there are “free” strokes anywhere in a 2K is a common misconception among the rowing community. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>How do you start a race? </td></tr></table> With a quick series of firm but not outrageously fast strokes. The initial stroke is somewhere in the 2:00-2:04 range (for a 2K pace in the ballpark of 1:36). I try to reach my planned initial pace (i.e., roughly 2K + 1) by the fourth stroke, and then no faster. I practice this every time I do a race-pace interval (Level 1 or Level 2) when training. Mike Caviston </td></tr></table> I should have read this reply before I injured myself starting faster and faster. I tore or pulled a muscle (distinct sharp pain) on my left groin, back and butt (!!!). It cost me three weeks of quality rowing. Now I am more cautious and start with 2:05 on the first stroke (rather than 1:50) and then take 4 quick short strokes without much power. This gets me down to about 1:32. Then I coast to projected race pace rather quickly. I would never have thought that a fast rower starts with a 2:00 - 2:04 stroke, that was a revelation. To return to the pacing issue: How do you feel during a race, ie. when does the pressure really set in? In my case there is almost no period where I am comfortable. I become uncomfortable at 200m and under real pressure after about 400m. From then on it's simply grueling and the objective is to keep it at constant level of discomfort. That means the pace drifts up slowly and reaches a low at about 1250m. Then I can usually pick up the pace little by little. Reading your suggestion of rowing at target +1 for 800, then at target for the next 600, then target -1 for 400, then target -2 for 200 implies an incredible control in a fairly desperate situation. Are we to understand that you are not under much pressure during the first 800m? In my case subjectively its does not feel easier to row at target +1 than at target since I am desperate at both paces so the inclination is to go at the faster pace to have some reserve in case of a breakdown. I'll have to try your suggestion and see if it helps.

[old] kjgress · Post by **[old] kjgress** » November 14th, 2005, 8:33 pm

[quote=H_2O,Nov 14 2005, 07:04 PM] [quote=Mike Caviston,Oct 21 2005, 05:22 PM] To return to the pacing issue: How do you feel during a race, ie. when does the pressure really set in? Reading your suggestion of rowing at target +1 for 800, then at target for the next 600, then target -1 for 400, then target -2 for 200 implies an incredible control in a fairly desperate situation. [/quote] I have almost no racing experience, but I have this to offer: When you look at how Mike trains in his intervals, it makes sense. His intense training is all split this way; he does his 1K and 500 m intervals with the GP +1 (or +2, depending), GP, Gp-1, GP-2, etc strategy. Since he trains with this level of control it gives him a handle mentally on the 2K race.

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 14th, 2005, 9:42 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 13 2005, 05:09 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Friends: I have not rotated in the pyramid interval workouts for Levels 1 & 2 (yet). I want to do this over the next week or two. I do not know at what pace to do these. Do you have any recommendations? Are all pieces in the pyramid done at the same pace? Do you have the experience to know what your current pace for these is vs. your current 8x500, 4x1000, 4x2000 paces? I would very much appreciate your comments. Thanks, and regards ... Mark </td></tr></table> One man's answer to my question, from Mike's "archives": <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... st&p=37886' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 886</a> Why couldn't I find this last night?

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 15th, 2005, 3:01 pm

CONFESSIONS continued ... L4 - Target meters 12,916 -- Actual 12,985 -- OVER: 69 meters (at 12.0 DPS average that's 5.75 strokes too much, right?). THOUGHTS: This is the first time I've done an L4 and was over distance. Since I can't seem to get RowPro set up properly to record 2' pieces, the SPM I see is only the average for the entire 60 minutes, so hard to tell where the problem is. I have to get this figured out (RowPro). But, I was determined to make up for slow pulls with fast pulls, and just overcorrected. But, hopefully I'll zero in on rate and pace soon. Also, this is like the 4th or 5th 60' L4 piece I've done without any thought of stopping before 60' was up. Of course, I stop all the time with the 12K L3 continuous pieces. Thus, I conclude that the mental gymnastics require to track and change pace and rate in the L4 workouts take my mind off the workout. I'm going to incorporate some of this in the L3s I do going forward, as Mike and others have suggested, and see if I can make the L3s more bearable. If I can do almost 13K meters L4 non-stop, I should be able to do 12K meters non-stop, even though the pace is faster. It's gotta be mental only.

[old] bmoore · Post by **[old] bmoore** » November 15th, 2005, 6:15 pm

Mark, When I set up RowPro for L4 workouts, I use 10' splits. (There are more than just 2' segments in L4 workouts, so I don't even try for 2' detail, plus you only can do 30 splits on RowPro). Take the total meters and divide by the Avg DPA to get the total number of strokes per set. I try to understroke each segment and go longer than the distance. This becomes a challenge after 40 minutes for me, but has been getting better. Keep at it. You have to do these workouts a number of times to even be able to ask the right questions sometimes. You're on the right path. Bill

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 15th, 2005, 6:39 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(bmoore @ Nov 15 2005, 06:15 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Mark, When I set up RowPro for L4 workouts, I use 10' splits. (There are more than just 2' segments in L4 workouts, so I don't even try for 2' detail, plus you only can do 30 splits on RowPro). Take the total meters and divide by the Avg DPA to get the total number of strokes per set. I try to understroke each segment and go longer than the distance. This becomes a challenge after 40 minutes for me, but has been getting better. Keep at it. You have to do these workouts a number of times to even be able to ask the right questions sometimes. You're on the right path. Bill </td></tr></table> Bill: Maybe I'll try the 10' splits. I could not get RowPro to break the 60' piece down into 2' splits (which I would be "chuffed" about, as our UK friends would say). It was sweet to do this on a 40' piece, because one could see the strokes and distance by every 2 minute sector of the workout. Better 6 splits to analyze than only 1 though ... How's the new baby, and Mom? Exciting stuff. My baby is now 15.5 (we went to the DMV today to get the manual she needs to study to get her "temps" on 12/1). We LOVE babies in our house. Would have had more if possible, but my wife is 5 years older than me and we got a late start. Doctor advised against any more after "15.5" as I like to call her these days (as the driving thing is top of mind for her (and for us) and 15.5 is the magic age to get licensed in Ohio). We were just talking about how fun it is to have a new baby in the house ... tiring, but great fun and family connection. Regards -- Mark

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