Spin-Off from the Choosing a Racing Boat thread

Krysta Coleman · Post by **Krysta Coleman** » July 29th, 2007, 10:21 am

I've been erging for a bit now, and I'm hoping to take the plunge and learn to row OTW next summer (too pregnant to try this season!). But I am far removed from any rowing clubs, so I'm going to have to travel over 800 km to a Learn to Row camp, and then try to learn/practice on my own locally. We have a nice reservoir, that is narrow but long with minimal boat traffic, that I think would be perfect for sculling.

I'm wondering what would be my best bet for a training scull? I've heard the name Maas Aero tossed around a lot - is this one of the better learners? I'm also considering just going ahead and getting a nice flat-water racing single right off, because I'm going to have a hard time justifying the purchase of a trainer one year and then another boat the next year. But, would a racing 1X be absolutely imposible for a beginner to learn on, or just really frustrating? If it's the latter, I think I can be pretty persistent. Ultimately, I do want to compete.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

- Krysta Coleman

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » July 29th, 2007, 1:54 pm

Hi Krysta,

The Maas Aero is a very nice recreational boat. However, if you want to go straight to a racing shell, one option would be to use an on-the-water version of training wheels: a wooden stick with plastic jugs which are a little above the water and out of the way of the oars, but make the boat just about impossible to flip. At least so far nobody around here has been able to flip with one attached, even trying hard and grabbing the boat on the gunwales with both hands and rocking the boat. See the cold water thread. I use them for cold water safety. I started on the water in an Alden, then graduated to the Maas Aero. Then one day I got brave and went out in a Kaschper racing shell and was thrilled to find it was just as easy, if not easier, as the Maas to set, and it was more fun to row.

Keep us posted.

added later: There are also nice stabilizers made by Alden that mount under the oarlocks if you don't want to make your own. The idea is to have the stabilizers or plastic jugs just touching the water at first while you work on the mechanics of the stroke, like sweep rowers do in training barges. After a few times, you could raise them a little, then a lot off the water. I've seen people who could use a racing shell after just a few times in training shells. It took me a long time to feel comfortable in a racing shell.

Byron

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » July 29th, 2007, 7:15 pm

Excellent suggestions from Byron, and if you do get in the market for a Racing 1x (or trainer, but it sounds like the other will be your choice), drop by and see what we offer from Swift.

Krysta Coleman · Post by **Krysta Coleman** » July 30th, 2007, 3:19 pm

Thanks Byron, I think I'll try a nimbler hull with some kind of "training wheel" set-up. I'll probably just get the Alden ones, although they look pretty pricey. $350 or so, I think. Still worth it, for me.

Paul, you're an agent for Swift? I hadn't noticed that on your site before. They look like pretty inexpensive boats, but I bet shipping to northern Alberta would be murder. Same for Maas or any of those usa-made boats, I guess.

- Krysta

coggs · Post by **coggs** » July 30th, 2007, 10:40 pm

>>I'll probably just get the Alden ones, although they look pretty pricey. $350 or so, I think.<<

Wintech has stability pontoons for much cheaper than that ($225 + @25 for the monting brackets).

http://www.wintechracing.com/#

But the cheapest option is getting some closed cell foam and some brackets from a building center. May not look as nice but will work nearly as well.

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » July 31st, 2007, 5:09 pm

Maas make three singles, the aero, a 24' and 27'. The 27' I would describe as a fast training shell, which certainly can be raced. Then there are full-on racing shells.
You may have a much better idea of what you want after sculling camp. From my limited experience of one 5 day camp at Craftsbury, some people can progress from total novice to a full racing shell in 1 week, others don't seem to learn much of anything.

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » July 31st, 2007, 5:22 pm

Nosmo wrote:From my limited experience of one 5 day camp at Craftsbury, some people can progress from total novice to a full racing shell in 1 week, others don't seem to learn much of anything.

When you have more experience, it doesn't change. The only thing that remains amazing is how long the "don't learn much of anything" group can stay that way.

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » July 31st, 2007, 7:09 pm

PaulS wrote:
Nosmo wrote:From my limited experience of one 5 day camp at Craftsbury, some people can progress from total novice to a full racing shell in 1 week, others don't seem to learn much of anything.
When you have more experience, it doesn't change. The only thing that remains amazing is how long the "don't learn much of anything" group can stay that way.

Actually what amazes me is how quickly I can shift from the former to the later group. (as last weekends races seemed to demonstrate!)

Krysta Coleman · Post by **Krysta Coleman** » July 31st, 2007, 8:29 pm

Nosmo wrote:Maas make three singles, the aero, a 24' and 27'. The 27' I would describe as a fast training shell, which certainly can be raced. Then there are full-on racing shells.

Their Flyweight model, which is billed as a "High Performance Open Water Racer" looks interesting too.

Nosmo wrote:You may have a much better idea of what you want after sculling camp. From my limited experience of one 5 day camp at Craftsbury, some people can progress from total novice to a full racing shell in 1 week, others don't seem to learn much of anything.

I am sure you are right about having a better idea of what sort to buy after the camp, but unless I get a used boat, I think I may have to decide long before. For example, if I took the plunge and got an Empacher, I would have to order months ahead. Other manufacturers say about a 6 week wait. Summer is short here - if they don't offer an LTR course until May or June, and then I have to wait 6 or 8 weeks for my boat - I may find myself missing a season.

Nosmo · Post by **Nosmo** » July 31st, 2007, 9:41 pm

Krysta,
Sounds like you need to decide if you will be happy with a real racing shell want more of training shell or even an open water shell. If you want to race, I'd avoid an open water shell (unless you get one used and would consider reselling it after a season). You run the risk of not being very happy with an open water shell if you've gotten used to a racing shell at camp. If you have good balance, have the discipline to improve and self correct, or are adventurous and ambitious enough to deal with a tippy boat, then get a racing shell.
I've been looking and the Swift, WinTech and Peinert are all inexpensive. The Swift and WinTech look really good. I've rowed the Peinert and the rigging doesn't look as good to my tastes, but they are very fast and to put the rower lower in the boat resulting in a stable but very fast boat.

tbartman · Post by **tbartman** » August 6th, 2007, 10:45 am

I rowed crew for a year a long time ago, but hadn't been on the water for 20 years. My wife had never been on the water. We both erg a fair amount, and went to Craftsbury this summer for their week long (actually 5 day) camp as a 40th birthday present to ourselves. Here was our experience.

We both started in Peinert Zephyrs - big fat training boats (22" at the waterline). Hurricanes couldn't sink it.

Within a day or two I had jumped to a Maas 24 (14" at the waterline). She progressed first to the Maas Aero (19") and then to the Maas 24 then next day. By the fourth day I was in a Peinert 26 (racing shell, 11.75"), and she was in it on the last day as well. So, even though she had never been on the water, after about 15 hours of water time, she was in the racing shell. Admittedly, some slightly older campers did not make it this far this fast, but I don't think it would have taken them much longer.

Interestingly, we were all being videotaped, and we all saw that we were actually more comfortable and stable in the Peinert 26 than in the Maas 24, so people started trying to get out of the Maas and into the Peinerts pretty quickly.

I would strongly suggest finding a way to try different boats before you buy anything, and also suggest you get at least 20-40 hours of water time in various boats before buying anything so that you can see how quickly you can pick things up and don't buy a boat that will frustrate you a few months after you get it (either because it is too slow for you to be fun, or on the other hand too unstable for you to ever enjoy it).

BTW, Craftsbury was awesome. It would be a great investment to go there for a visit because you'll spend a lot less than you would on a boat (1 wk ~ $1000), find out what boat suits you, and get tons of great training as well. Better than making a $3000-4000 mistake.

p.s. We were so impressed with the Peinerts that we are buying one as soon as our local rowing club has a space open up in the boathouse for one.

Rockin Roland · Post by **Rockin Roland** » August 7th, 2007, 6:51 pm

There is a lot to consider when buying a boat. The quality and design becomes more important as your usage and skills increase. Also don't buy a wide training type boat. They may be stable but they are very slow and you'd regret it once your skills improve.

If you are a lightweight and live in northern USA (short summers and rowing season) then a cheap Peinert or Chinese made boat such as Wintech or Swift would be fine. The boat's components wouldn't get enough stress, usage or load to cause any reliability problems.

However, if you are a heavyweight and row several times per week, 12 months of the year then the above boats would truly be tested and not suffice. Cheap boats also tend to be not as stiff as the better quality boats. Wintechs are about as stiff as a wet noodle.

Over the years I've trashed several riggers and don't believe there is a rigger in the world that I can use without the need for backstays(although several boat manufacturers may try and claim otherwise). Then there is the choice of clogs or shoes.

And most importantly don't trust any boat builder or boat rep. They are just as bad as car salesmen and will tell you a whole bunch of crap just to sell you stuff. You are better off talking to experienced club rowers that have tried different types of boats and equipment.

Krysta Coleman · Post by **Krysta Coleman** » August 7th, 2007, 7:41 pm

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I think I will get a good racing single and just equip it with the Wintech stability pontoons until I get the hang of it. It might be frustrating for the first couple months, but I think I can stick with it.

Rockin Roland wrote:If you are a lightweight and live in northern USA (short summers and rowing season) then a cheap Peinert or Chinese made boat such as Wintech or Swift would be fine. The boat's components wouldn't get enough stress, usage or load to cause any reliability problems.

I am a lightweight female and live in northern Canada (very short rowing season), so you're probably right about not stressing the boat very much. But I do like to have good equipment (in my other sports) and if I am going to race in the future, I'll eventually want something nice. I have been waffling a lot, but right now I am leaning toward shelling out for a Hudson or Empacher if I can talk my husband into it.

- Krysta

ancho · Post by **ancho** » August 8th, 2007, 9:16 am

Sound like e nice choice, Krysta!

Rockin Roland wrote:.... Wintechs are about as stiff as a wet noodle....

tbartman · Post by **tbartman** » August 8th, 2007, 2:09 pm

If you are a lightweight and live in northern USA (short summers and rowing season) then a cheap Peinert or Chinese made boat such as Wintech or Swift would be fine. The boat's components wouldn't get enough stress, usage or load to cause any reliability problems.

However, if you are a heavyweight and row several times per week, 12 months of the year then the above boats would truly be tested and not suffice. Cheap boats also tend to be not as stiff as the better quality boats.

I'm not an expert, but the Peinerts at Craftsbury are on the water 4+ hours per day, 7 days a week, all summer long, and seem to hold up fine. Plus, us novices crash them into each other, the docks, submerged tree limbs by the shore, the side of the boathouse, etc. and the folks up there say that they take a beating with little to no damage. In fact, I ran into another camper at about a 30-degree angle, my bow to her side (my fault) at pretty good force, and we couldn't see any mark at all on either Peinert.

Just IMHO.