Need Training Plan For Crash B's

[old] languagelady1 · Post by **[old] languagelady1** » December 9th, 2005, 10:39 pm

Thanks

[old] Bayko · Post by **[old] Bayko** » December 10th, 2005, 7:44 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Dec 10 2005, 01:42 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Beth-- You may find the recommended training paces difficult. Many others on the Forum, myself included, have. If you find the paces too demanding, stick w/ the overall program, but ease off the pace a couple of seconds/500 in your early workouts. Slightly slower paces are entirely consistent w/ the training program. UT2, UT1, and AT, etc are not a single prescribed pace, but a range. You can gradually increase the paces you use in your training, and come late Feb, you'll be well prepared for 7+ miserable minutes of racing. Tom </td></tr></table> That's absolutely right. I forgot to mention that. It actually explains that within the text under the charts, but I think that our optimistic side shoots directly at the fastest pace listed. Another warning would be to use the paces listed for your current 2km, not the next fastest level that you want to achieve. When you can achieve the fastest paces listed for the 7:36 2km you should theorectically be capable of a faster 2km. Don't move to the 7:32 paces until you actually row a 7:32. Rick

[old] languagelady1 · Post by **[old] languagelady1** » December 11th, 2005, 10:31 am

OK, so yesterday I tried to do the "week 5": test--a 2K after just training for 3 x 20 or 60 min at a 20 stroke rating at a 2:08ish for the last month x 4 per week. Wow, there really IS a difference between low rating for distance and fast rating for 2K!! I don't think I should have started at that test, because I got incredibly bummed out, although today I realize it was just not a good place to start. I definitely need to slowly build up to a 2K! It seems that the Pete Plan and the Concept 2 plan both incorporate that "short bursts" x 8 (500 meteres in Pete's Plan and 1 minute in Concept 2 plan.) My question is, do the guys who follow Concept 2 use the heart rate monitor to determine the time in between, or do you pick a certain amount of time, such as 3 min and 30 seconds as the Pete Plan recommends? Why do some folks follow the heart rating approach and others don't? Also, how does your "low time" impact anything. I am able to do a 1:41 for that, does that necessarily mean that I, theoretically am capable of a fairly low 2K time, like around 7:00 or so? How does that work? Thanks for the education!

[old] Bayko · Post by **[old] Bayko** » December 11th, 2005, 11:35 am

First, (Stupid me), I counted wrong. It is 11 weeks until CRASH-B's, not 12. Adjust as necessary. Based on doing 3 X 20' or 1 X 60' at 2:08 I think that your estimate of 7:35 is accurate. In fact, doing it at 20spm may indicate even better, once you get some faster paced workouts done. Different people use either time or heartrate to determine rest periods. Either is valid, I'd just suggest that whicherver you choose that you be consistent and not jump from one to the other and back again. You want to have consistent reference points in order to determine if you are really making progress. I tend to use the shortest suggested rest intervals that the program outlines. That is, 25% of the work period for UT1, 50% for AT, and 100% for TR and AN. For example a 3 X 20' UT1 workout would be 5' rest. Others do it differently and also get good results. Do what suits you best within the guidelines that are listed under the charts, and stick with it so that as time goes on you can compare apples with apples (so to speak). Rick

[old] languagelady1 · Post by **[old] languagelady1** » December 11th, 2005, 12:47 pm

Thanks for that I just did my 500 m x 8 with the 3:30 rest btwn. First 6 between 1:54.0 and 1:55.2. The last 2 I had a harder time and averaged 1:57.0. It felt like I needed longer rest time, but I didn't take it. My legs are slightly burning as I type... I really hope that in 11 weeks I can a) bring those splits back up to a 2K (I guess that would be a 7:36); and possible drop it to 7:20ish. Any hope of that? Sorry to ask so many questions, but: I keep my damper at 4 or 5 on sprints and 8 on my longer pieces for the 10K to 60 min. pieces. Does the damper setting impact a lot? I feel like I can really drive through harder on the 8, but I can't get the speed up and sustain it unless it is lower. THANKS! This really helps with the motivation as well as my education. Beth

[old] Citroen · Post by **[old] Citroen** » December 11th, 2005, 7:16 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(languagelady1 @ Dec 11 2005, 04:47 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Sorry to ask so many questions, but: I keep my damper at 4 or 5 on sprints and 8 on my longer pieces for the 10K to 60 min. pieces. Does the damper setting impact a lot? I feel like I can really drive through harder on the 8, but I can't get the speed up and sustain it unless it is lower. </td></tr></table> I always keep the damper the same. (Before BIRC I was on damper 3 (105-110 drag factor).) I've pushed it up a bit to 124 drag factor recently - this is an experiment - to see if it improves my strength. But, I would never dream of using a higher setting for a longer piece.

[old] languagelady1 · Post by **[old] languagelady1** » December 11th, 2005, 9:04 pm

How do you figure out a "drag factor" versus a damper setting. Do you think 8 is too high? I try to row in tandem with a (young, strong) guy who is about 5'8" and I am 5'11" with really long legs, so I found myself increasing my damper just to get a strong enough drive to stay with him at the low rate of 20.

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » December 11th, 2005, 9:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(languagelady1 @ Dec 11 2005, 08:04 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>How do you figure out a "drag factor" versus a damper setting. Do you think 8 is too high? I try to row in tandem with a (young, strong) guy who is about 5'8" and I am 5'11" with really long legs, so I found myself increasing my damper just to get a strong enough drive to stay with him at the low rate of 20. </td></tr></table> Reset the monitor. Then press "rest" and "OK" simultaneously, the word "drag" should appear in the lower right corner of the monitor. 8 is much too high. My advice: take the lowest setting (drag factor 95). You can still generate the same power as on a high setting with almost the same stroke rate but it is possible to finetune the stroke more (get exactly the resistance you want and can handle). There should be absolutely no strain during the stroke. You should be in complete control feeling like you can accelerate smoothly. Power pickup at the front end is very fast. If you have a model "C" (monitor says PM2 or PM2+) you can't get much below drag 95. If you have a model "D" (newer, monitor says PM3) you can lower the drag factor even more. If you pull with too much force your core muscles will tighten up restricting your breathing, something which you want to avoid at all cost. The uk interactive guide is brutal. It also is based on a training philosophy that seems no longer to be current (high intensity almost every day). This can very easily burn you out. The Wolverine plan is more reasonable. You might also read the discussion with Xeno ("questions for Xeno") who is an olympic gold medalist and feels that less intensity is more productive. 2:05 for 60 mins is very good rowing. Best of luck!

[old] languagelady1 · Post by **[old] languagelady1** » December 12th, 2005, 7:28 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(H_2O @ Dec 11 2005, 09:33 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(languagelady1 @ Dec 11 2005, 08:04 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>How do you figure out a "drag factor" versus a damper setting. Do you think 8 is too high? I try to row in tandem with a (young, strong) guy who is about 5'8" and I am 5'11" with really long legs, so I found myself increasing my damper just to get a strong enough drive to stay with him at the low rate of 20. </td></tr></table> Reset the monitor. Then press "rest" and "OK" simultaneously, the word "drag" should appear in the lower right corner of the monitor. 8 is much too high. My advice: take the lowest setting (drag factor 95). You can still generate the same power as on a high setting with almost the same stroke rate but it is possible to finetune the stroke more (get exactly the resistance you want and can handle). There should be absolutely no strain during the stroke. You should be in complete control feeling like you can accelerate smoothly. Power pickup at the front end is very fast. If you have a model "C" (monitor says PM2 or PM2+) you can't get much below drag 95. If you have a model "D" (newer, monitor says PM3) you can lower the drag factor even more. If you pull with too much force your core muscles will tighten up restricting your breathing, something which you want to avoid at all cost. The uk interactive guide is brutal. It also is based on a training philosophy that seems no longer to be current (high intensity almost every day). This can very easily burn you out. The Wolverine plan is more reasonable. You might also read the discussion with Xeno ("questions for Xeno") who is an olympic gold medalist and feels that less intensity is more productive. 2:05 for 60 mins is very good rowing. Best of luck! </td></tr></table> Thanks so much, I am lucky there are so many knowledgeable people helping me out! I must not be doing something correctly. I did three sets of 17 minutes (according to the Concept 2 program, which I am interested in hearing more about.) I feel like I am able to press with my quads quite hard at the 8, and kept my first piece at a 2:05, and was able to keep breathing and keep my back taut without tightening it up. When I lowered it to a 4/5, my splits went UP to 2:07 and I felt like I was going to fly off the end of the slide at the finish because I have gotten used to the 8 setting! Then my next piece, I raised it back up to the 8 and my times dropped down to 2:04 and I felt like I could comfortably stay on. It is probably obvious by now that I am not a super-experienced erg-er (is there such a word? I have been really only training with a few people, and I picked the one guy who the coach had liked in our master's program to kind of guide me. He videotaped me and gave feedback, which was good, but he didn't know what to make of my damper settings. Beth

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » December 13th, 2005, 4:15 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(languagelady1 @ Dec 12 2005, 06:28 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> He videotaped me and gave feedback, which was good, but he didn't know what to make of my damper settings. Beth </td></tr></table> In the beginning you'll be a little slower on a lower damper setting. But I think if you stick with it after a while you will be faster. However you are now very close to your race so I would not change too much, maybe go down by one level and when that feels good another one. However by all means keep erging. The splits are really very good already and I think there is much improvement ahead.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 13th, 2005, 12:35 pm

The Australian Program link is working now. <a href='http://www.concept2.com/forums/media/asrl.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/forums/media/asrl.htm</a>

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » December 13th, 2005, 12:48 pm

Courtesy of Gary Wise CONCEPT 11 16 WEEK PROGRAM INTERMEDIATE TO ADVANCED ROWERS AIM: TO PEAK FOR TIME TRIAL 3 NON-CONSECUTIVE DAYS PER WEEK DAY 1- INTERVAL TRAINING DAY 2- FARTLEK TRAINING DAY 3- NEGATIVE SPLIT TRAINING WARMUP COMPLETELY BEFORE STARTING EFFORT. 1. INTERVAL TRAINING (INTERVALS IN METERS) *EFFORT PIECES 100% *AIM TO IMPROVE POWER *CONCENTRATE ON KEEPING 500 M PACE AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO PERSONAL BEST WHILE NOT LETTING STROKE RATE INCREASE. *DAMPER SETTING SAME AS RACE PIECES. *INTERVAL PIECES 60%-70%. *MAINTAIN STROKE LENGTH, MAINTAIN NATURAL SPINAL CURVATURE, FOCUS ON BREATHING TO BETTER CONTROL HEART RATE. WEEK 1&2 500-M 500 500 3&4 500 500 500 500 5&6 500 500 500 500 500 7&8 500 500 1000 500 500 9&10 500 500 1000 1000 500 11&12 500 1000 1000 1000 500 13&14 500 1000 1500 1000 500 15&16 500 1000 2000 1000 500 REMEMBER: FOR EVERY EFFORT PIECE, YOU FOLLOW WITH THE SAME DISTANCE IN RECOVERY PIECE. 2) FARTLEK TRAINING (PIECES MEASURED IN STROKES) *EFFORT PIECE 100% *CONCENTRATE ON SPEED THROUGH STROKE. *AIM IS TO IMPROVE ALL SPRINTING ABILITY. *NON-EFFORT PIECES 50% *AGAIN SIT TALL, MAINTAIN LENGTH OF STROKE AND USE DEEP SLOW BREATHING TO LOWER PULSE. WEEK 1&2 10-20-30-40-30-20-10 3&4 10- - - - - 50 - - - - - 10 5&6 10- - - 50-55-50- - -10 7&8 10- - - 50-60-50- - -10 9&10 10- - - 60-65-60- - -10 11&12 10- - - 60-70-60- - -10 13&14 10- - - 70-75-70- - -10 15&16 10- - - 70-80-70- - -10 REMEMBER: FOR EVERY EFFORT AMOUNT OF STROKES, YOU FOLLOW WITH THE SAME NUMBER OF RECOVERY STROKES. DAMPER SETTING SHOULD BE 1 OR 2 SETTINGS HIGHER, THAN FOR RACE PIECES. EXAMPLE: 10 STROKES @ 100% FOLLOWED WITHOUT REST BY 10 STROKES @ 50% FOLLOWED WITHOUT REST BY 20 STROKES @ 100% AND SO ON. 3) NEGATIVE SPLIT TRAINING AIM: TO MAINTAIN FORM THROUGH FATIGUE. *EFFORT PIECES 1. FIRST PIECE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROGRAM, ROW AT A 500-M PACE THAT BRINGS YOUR PULSE RATE TO 70%-75% VO2 MAX THROUGHOUT MOST OF THE EFFORT PIECE. EACH WEEK INCREASE EFFORT 5% AS DISTANCE DECREASES. 2. SECOND EFFORT PIECE, AIM TO MAINTAIN 500-M PACE OF 1ST PIECE OR IMPROVE. *NON-EFFORT PIECES 1) AS WITH PREVIOUS PAGES, MAINTAIN LENGTH OF STROKE. SIT TALL AND USE CONTROLLED BREATHING TO LOWER PULSE. WEEK 1&2 5000-M(EFFORT80%) 2500-M(RECOVERY) 5000-M(EFFORT 80%) 3&4 5000 2500 5000 5&6 4500 2000 4500 7&8 4000 2000 4000 9&10 3500 1500 3500 11&12 3000 1500 3000 13&14 2500 1000 2500 15&16 2000(100% EFFORT) 1000 2000(100%EFFORT) DAMPER SETTING SAME AS (1)

[old] languagelady1 · Post by **[old] languagelady1** » December 16th, 2005, 11:30 am

Thanks John! You suggest 3 non-consecutive training days. Do you do other things on the "off" days? Longer, steady state pieces, or does that not go with this program? How about warm-up and cool-down periods for each of the training sessions? Is the 80% rate etc. based on a heart rate monitor or on the Concept 2 interactive guide table? I have been getting a lot of good suggestions, especially the one about sticking with one program and not switching up too much but as a few people have stated, the Concept 2 program has very intense pieces every day, which is, well...intense! Not that I mind working hard, but I want to be efficient and smart about it. Thanks a bunch, Beth

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » December 16th, 2005, 1:45 pm

If the C2 program is too demanding, (and it is certainly demanding) substitute a UT2 workout for one of the more intense sessions. Or take a day off. Recovery is part of training. By sticking w/ one basic plan, over time you'll get a sense of what you can handle. And what you can handle is likely to increase as you become better trained--which takes years. Tom

[old] languagelady1 · Post by **[old] languagelady1** » December 16th, 2005, 3:52 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Dec 16 2005, 01:45 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If the C2 program is too demanding, (and it is certainly demanding) substitute a UT2 workout for one of the more intense sessions. Or take a day off. Recovery is part of training. By sticking w/ one basic plan, over time you'll get a sense of what you can handle. And what you can handle is likely to increase as you become better trained--which takes years. Tom </td></tr></table> Thank you Tom, that is good advice, and it is just what I did today, I trained at my UT2, and feel more capable for my piece tomorrow. Thanks a million! Beth