Help me go sub-7:00 for the 2k

[LarryRow]

So, I've decided the next step is to try a 2k at 1:50 pace, which means, if my math is correct, I need to sustain 262 watts, which means according to that paper, I need to be able to hit a max of 480 watts.

I suppose this will take a while. I'll keep putting in 50-60,000m weeks and test myself to see if my power is improving.

[bisqeet]

So, I've decided the next step is to try a 2k at 1:50 pace, which means, if my math is correct, I need to sustain 262 watts, which means according to that paper, I need to be able to hit a max of 480 watts.

I suppose this will take a while. I'll keep putting in 50-60,000m weeks and test myself to see if my power is improving.

just an idea...
7:00 is approx 300W average

say your 2k rating is 30 (make thinks stupid simple for maths) - works out at ~300/30 ~10W/stroke SPI (stroke power index)

try and keep this sub7 "drive" part in your training (10w) - just lower your rating to 20 (20x10 ~200W -> 2:00/500)

the idea is keep that powerful drive - take more time on the recovery - develop the power!!!

[LarryRow]

Hello Dean,

I did my 7:56 2k at a rate of 27. I have nothing against low rate work, this week we did a twenty minute piece in class at a stroke rate of 19. I averaged 2:10, so not sub 2:00. I might be able to generate sub 2 at a lower stroke rates for a shorter period of time but it is harder on the body than higher stroke rates.

So, how do people increase their power?

[hjs]

Hello Dean,

I did my 7:56 2k at a rate of 27. I have nothing against low rate work, this week we did a twenty minute piece in class at a stroke rate of 19. I averaged 2:10, so not sub 2:00. I might be able to generate sub 2 at a lower stroke rates for a shorter period of time but it is harder on the body than higher stroke rates.

So, how do people increase their power?

Do 80% of your meters low rate and use your CURRENT 2 power 1.59/27 in wats. 7,7 ish. Do every 6 weeks a 2k test and up your stroke with the improvement after every test. Also do some interval work at 2k pace and aim for rate 30. 27 is very low.

[aussieluke]

Hello Dean,

I did my 7:56 2k at a rate of 27. I have nothing against low rate work, this week we did a twenty minute piece in class at a stroke rate of 19. I averaged 2:10, so not sub 2:00. I might be able to generate sub 2 at a lower stroke rates for a shorter period of time but it is harder on the body than higher stroke rates.

So, how do people increase their power?

More long distance low rate work at UT2

2:10 at 19 is fine. Just try doing it for 45-60 minutes

Edit: in relation to your 2k time, maybe 2:20ish

Occasionally do it for 30 minutes as hard as possible - the classic 30r20


Interestingly, I've been reading through the reddit rowing sub forum lately, and although reddit is obviously not always the top source for quality information, these guys are all young, fit, competitive high school and above OTW rowers with low 6 minute 2k times - and the standard answer to just about every question is surprisingly, more steady state work. Rate 18, low HR/55% of 2k watts. Hours of it. Usually 2 X 45' with a short break between. Six days a week. And I'd have thought these guys would be all about the 500m times.

[LarryRow]

I'll work towards longer steady state pieces along with some faster 500m intervals. I tried 25 minutes @20spm, and everything was going great at around 2:17/500 for fifteen minutes when the machine rebooted on me. To make matters worse, I realized that all of the workouts were being put against some date in 2013. Gotta love gym ergs! I think it wants its firmware updated but nobody would ever do that.

[LarryRow]

After 6500m in class, half at 2:05-2:10, I pulled a 1:50 500m, stroke rate 32, two seconds faster than my best time.

We did another two minute piece right after that but I could only hold 1:53-1:54.

I just have to keep pushing, it'll happen with time.

[turboskiff]

My two cents:

From where you are a lot of UT2 work is probably going to turn you into a good, slow rower. Steady state work (base building) has a specific physiological effect but you need to a lot of it. At the moment you need to add power to your stroke and for longer.

To that end I would recommend doing most of your meters at UT1 with some fast intervals once or twice a week, e.g., 8 x 500m, 4 x 1000m or 10 x 1 min on/off.

At this stage I wouldn't get hung up on 30R20 power pieces. At the moment you don't have the power to make them worthwhile. But for sure row lots of hard 30 minutes pieces. To row sub 7 you need to be knocking on the door of an 8K 30 minute row.

From where you are improvements will come quickly and then it gets harder because the power/pace curve is exponential (http://www.machars.net Watts/Pace tab).

[LarryRow]

Thanks for the advice! Please don't turn me into a slow rower!

I'll make sure to add in faster, shorter pieces to try to get my speed up.

I did 8x500@2:00 today. Last one at 1:58. I took 2:00 rest as I'm still kind of beat from last night's class.

[KevJGK]

I did 8x500@2:00 today. Last one at 1:58. I took 2:00 rest as I'm still kind of beat from last night's class.

2:00 rest isn't enough - you need to go much faster and more rest will help.

Do your 8 x 500 intervals with 3:30 rest

If that seems too long put more effort in and pretty soon it wont seem long enough.

3:30 goes by in an instant when you have intervals to complete but you're exhausted, gasping for air and dreading them

Best of luck.

[LarryRow]

Yeah, I guess that's not enough rest. I'll try it with the longer rest, like you suggest. I don't think I have a lot faster than 1:58x8 at this point, I might have 1:55x8.

This is just like the track intervals I used to run although I don't remember getting 3:30 rest but maybe it took us that long to jog around the corner of the track and back to the start line, LOL. I know we were always begging for five more seconds of rest before having to go again.

Tempo runs were worse than the track workouts, in my opinion. Those runs were usually 6-8 miles with the first half at one pace, say half marathon, and the second half at say 10k pace. Picking up the pace when you're tired is not what you want to do but you can train your body to do it. Those running workouts were usually almost an hour long.

[hjs]

Yeah, I guess that's not enough rest. I'll try it with the longer rest, like you suggest. I don't think I have a lot faster than 1:58x8 at this point, I might have 1:55x8.

This is just like the track intervals I used to run although I don't remember getting 3:30 rest but maybe it took us that long to jog around the corner of the track and back to the start line, LOL. I know we were always begging for five more seconds of rest before having to go again.

Tempo runs were worse than the track workouts, in my opinion. Those runs were usually 6-8 miles with the first half at one pace, say half marathon, and the second half at say 10k pace. Picking up the pace when you're tired is not what you want to do but you can train your body to do it. Those running workouts were usually almost an hour long.

Its mostly to long, you gain no strenght from this pace. You should go much faster, so you should keep the reps much shorter.

On top of that, 500 reps on one minute rest can be done around 2k pace. This on 2 min certainly faster, so you also did no try really hard. The whole point of speed / strenghtwork is to really go for it. You need a mindset change. You should go faster, beyond your 2k pace, and you should push harder.

For a 7.00 min 2k 8x 500 should be roughly 1.43......

[LarryRow]

I agree, I think 500m is too long to build strength.

What do I do? 100m repeats with how much rest? 250m repeats?

How many?

[hjs]

I agree, I think 500m is too long to build strength.

What do I do? 100m repeats with how much rest? 250m repeats?

How many?

250 meter reps are fine for you. You can alter them with 1 min reps. I am a fan of doing more volume, so at least 10, but in the longer run even 20. But every rep should be a good rep. Once you feel your technique falling apart its no use going on.
Keep the rest short, 1 min is fine. Pace around 1k pace which is 1.55 based roughly on your 2k.

Do a decent warmup and start pulling 1.55 reps, not faster, not slower. If at some point 1.55 feels to fast, you can paddle a rep, this will give a much longer rest. 2 x a min plus the paddles rep. This way you ad some more reps a good pace.

Aim for a solid rate, 30 is fine fir your.

Every third session, you could aim for rate 20, this will be a good bit slower, but will build more strenght. 1 min reps are good here. Simply pull 20 hard strokes every rep. Rest the same.

100 meter reps are to short, pace will higher but with more risk, so at this point I would advice against those.

[LarryRow]

Ok, I did 10x250@1:55 with 1:00 rest. My ErgData cable became sort of disconnected after the second one so I restarted the intervals and did another eight in a row, averaging right on 1:55.0. The first two were at 1:54.3.

It wasn't a bad experience although my stroke rate was 27-28, not 30. I don't feel comfortable at 30 yet.

How often do I do a workout like that? It can't be my only workout, I have to do some longer steady state work.

250m intervals are a lot easier to handle than 500m intervals.